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    <entry>
      <title>What the Bible teaches about spirits, death, and Hell</title>
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      <published>2009-11-19T14:02:08Z</published>
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      <author><name>JeremyG</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p>Well, it&#8217;s taken me more than 2 weeks, but I have finally finished compiling a list of Biblical passages which teach the 6 points that I posted earlier, in the &#8220;Is Hell Eternal?&#8221; thread, in the following post: <a href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/viewreply/7064/">http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/viewreply/7064/</a>. I tried to be quite thorough, but I am certainly not going to claim that this is is by any means a complete or exhaustive list of passages which prove these points. You will notice that I edited the points slightly to include &#8220;souls&#8221; along with &#8220;spirits.&#8221;
</p>
<p>
I have to post this list in multiple posts, due to the length being over the character limit per post.
</p>
<p>
Abbreviations used:
</p>
<p>
&#8220;Heb.&#8221; = Hebrew
</p>
<p>
&#8220;Gr.&#8221; = Greek
</p>
<p>
&#8220;lit.&#8221; = literally
</p>
<p>
<b>1. Man was created in the image of God with an immaterial spirit/soul (within the material body):</b>
</p>
<blockquote><p>Genesis 1:27: &#8220;God created [Heb. &#8221;<i>bara</i>&#8221;] man in His own image, in the image of God He created [Heb. &#8221;<i>bara</i>&#8221;] him; male and female He created [Heb. &#8221;<i>bara</i>&#8221;] them.&#8221; (NASB.) cf. John 4:24: &#8220;God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.&#8221; (NASB.) cf. Genesis 2:7: &#8220;Then the LORD God formed [Heb. &#8221;<i>yatsar</i>&#8221;] man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 2:16-17: &#8220;The LORD God commanded the man, saying, &#8216;From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 
<br />
 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 6:3: &#8220;Then the LORD said, &#8216;My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he <b><u>also</u></b> is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 27:4 (also in verses 19, 25, 31): &#8220;and prepare a savory dish for me such as I love, and bring it to me that I may eat, so that my soul may bless you before I die.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 34:3, 8: &#8220;And his soul was drawn to Dinah the daughter of Jacob. He loved the young woman and spoke tenderly to her. [...] But Hamor spoke with them, saying, &#8216;The soul of my son Shechem longs for your daughter. Please give her to him to be his wife.&#8221; (ESV.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 41:8: &#8220;Now in the morning his spirit was troubled, so he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all its wise men. And Pharaoh told them his dreams, but there was no one who could interpret them to Pharaoh.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 42:21: &#8220;Then they said to one another, &#8216;Truly we are guilty concerning our brother, because we saw the distress of his soul when he pleaded with us, yet we would not listen; therefore this distress has come upon us.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Genesis 45:27: &#8220;When they told him all the words of Joseph that he had spoken to them, and when he saw the wagons that Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of their father Jacob revived.&#8221;
</p>
<p>
Genesis 49:6: &#8220;Let my soul not enter into their council;
<br />
         Let not my glory be united with their assembly;
<br />
         Because in their anger they slew men,
<br />
         And in their self-will they lamed oxen.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Exodus 35:21: &#8220;Everyone whose heart stirred him and everyone whose spirit moved him came and brought the LORD&#8217;S contribution for the work of the tent of meeting and for all its service and for the holy garments.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Leviticus 16:29, 31: &#8220;&#8216;This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you; [...] &#8216;It is to be a sabbath of solemn rest for you, that you may humble your souls; it is a permanent statute.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Leviticus 19:28 (also in 21:1): &#8220;&#8216;You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead [lit. &#8220;soul"] nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the LORD.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Leviticus 26:15-16: &#8220;if, instead, you reject My statutes, and if your soul abhors My ordinances so as not to carry out all My commandments, and so break My covenant, 
<br />
 I, in turn, will do this to you: I will appoint over you a sudden terror, consumption and fever that will waste away the eyes and cause the soul to pine away; also, you will sow your seed uselessly, for your enemies will eat it up.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Leviticus 26:43: &#8220;&#8216;For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Numbers 16:22: &#8220;But they fell on their faces and said, &#8216;O God, God of the spirits of all flesh, when one man sins, will You be angry with the entire congregation?&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Numbers 21:4-5: &#8220;Then they journeyed from Mount Hor by the Way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the soul of the people became very discouraged on the way. And the people spoke against God and against Moses: &#8216;Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.&#8217;&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Numbers 27:16: &#8220;May the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, appoint a man over the congregation,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 2:30: &#8220;But Sihon king of Heshbon was not willing for us to pass through his land; for the LORD your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, in order to deliver him into your hand, as he is today.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 4:29: &#8220;&#8216;But from there you will seek the LORD your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 6:5: &#8220;&#8216;You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 10:12: &#8220;&#8216;Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 11:13, 18: &#8220;&#8216;It shall come about, if you listen obediently to my commandments which I am commanding you today, to love the LORD your God and to serve Him with all your heart and all your soul, [...] &#8216;You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 12:15, 20-21: &#8220;Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart. [...] When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after. If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.&#8221; (KJV.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 13:3: &#8220;you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 14:26: &#8220;And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,&#8221; (KJV.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 26:16: &#8220;&#8216;This day the LORD your God commands you to do these statutes and ordinances. You shall therefore be careful to do them with all your heart and with all your soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 28:65: &#8220;&#8216;Among those nations you shall find no rest, and there will be no resting place for the sole of your foot; but there the LORD will give you a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and despair of soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Deuteronomy 30:2, 6, 10: &#8220;and you return to the LORD your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, [...] &#8216;Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. [...] if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Joshua 22:5: &#8220;&#8216;Only be very careful to observe the commandment and the law which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded you, to love the LORD your God and walk in all His ways and keep His commandments and hold fast to Him and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Joshua 23:14: &#8220;&#8216;Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Judges 5:21: &#8220;&#8216;The torrent of Kishon swept them away,
<br />
         The ancient torrent, the torrent Kishon.
<br />
         O my soul, march on with strength.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Judges 16:16: &#8220;It came about when she pressed him daily with her words and urged him, that his soul was annoyed to death.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 1:10: &#8220;And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed to the LORD and wept in anguish.&#8221; (NKVJ.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 1:15: &#8220;But Hannah replied, &#8216;No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 2:16: &#8220;And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force.&#8221; (KJV.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 2:33: &#8220;&#8216;Yet I will not cut off every man of yours from My altar so that your eyes will fail from weeping and your soul grieve, and all the increase of your house will die in the prime of life.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 18:1: &#8220;Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 20:4: &#8220;Then said Jonathan unto David, Whatsoever thy soul desireth, I will even do it for thee.&#8221; (KJV.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 23:20: &#8220;&#8216;Now then, O king, come down according to all the desire of your soul to do so; and our part shall be to surrender him into the king&#8217;s hand.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Samuel 30:6: &#8220;Now David was greatly distressed, for the people spoke of stoning him, because the soul of all the people was grieved, every man for his sons and his daughters. But David strengthened himself in the LORD his God.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
2 Samuel 1:9: &#8220;&#8216;And he saith unto me, Stand, I pray thee, over me, and put me to death, for seized me hath the arrow, for all my soul [is] still in me.&#8221; (YLT.)
</p>
<p>
2 Samuel 3:21: &#8220;Abner said to David, &#8216;Let me arise and go and gather all Israel to my lord the king, that they may make a covenant with you, and that you may be king over all that your soul desires.&#8217; So David sent Abner away, and he went in peace.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
2 Samuel 5:8: &#8220;David said on that day, &#8216;Whoever would strike the Jebusites, let him reach the lame and the blind, who are hated by David&#8217;s soul, through the water tunnel.&#8217; Therefore they say, &#8216;The blind or the lame shall not come into the house.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
2 Samuel 11:11: &#8220;Uriah said to David, &#8216;The ark and Israel and Judah are staying in temporary shelters, and my lord Joab and the servants of my lord are camping in the open field. Shall I then go to my house to eat and to drink and to lie with my wife? By your life and the life of your soul, I will not do this thing.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Kings 2:4: &#8220;so that the LORD may carry out His promise which He spoke concerning me, saying, &#8216;If your sons are careful of their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, you shall not lack a man on the throne of Israel.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Kings 8:48 (repeated in 2 Chronicles 6:38): &#8220;if they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies who have taken them captive, and pray to You toward their land which You have given to their fathers, the city which You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your name;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Kings 11:37: &#8220;And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel.&#8221; (KJV.)
</p>
<p>
1 Kings 21:5: &#8220;But Jezebel his wife came to him and said to him, &#8216;How is it that your spirit is so sullen that you are not eating food?&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
2 Kings 4:27: &#8220;When she came to the man of God to the hill, she caught hold of his feet. And Gehazi came near to push her away; but the man of God said, &#8216;Let her alone, for her soul is troubled within her; and the LORD has hidden it from me and has not told me.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
2 Kings 23:3 (repeated in 2 Chronicles 34:31), 25: &#8220;The king stood by the pillar and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep His commandments and His testimonies and His statutes with all his heart and all his soul, to carry out the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people entered into the covenant. [...] Before him there was no king like him who turned to the LORD with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; nor did any like him arise after him.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Chronicles 5:26: &#8220;So the God of Israel stirred up the spirit of Pul, king of Assyria, even the spirit of Tilgath-pilneser king of Assyria, and he carried them away into exile, namely the Reubenites, the Gadites and the half-tribe of Manasseh, and brought them to Halah, Habor, Hara and to the river of Gozan, to this day.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
1 Chronicles 22:19: &#8220;&#8216;Now set your heart and your soul to seek the LORD your God; arise, therefore, and build the sanctuary of the LORD God, so that you may bring the ark of the covenant of the LORD and the holy vessels of God into the house that is to be built for the name of the LORD.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
2 Chronicles 15:12: &#8220;They entered into the covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and soul;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
2 Chronicles 36:22 (repeated in Ezra 1:1): &#8220;Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia--in order to fulfill the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah--the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Ezra 1:5: &#8220;Then the heads of fathers&#8217; households of Judah and Benjamin and the priests and the Levites arose, even everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up and rebuild the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Esther 4:13: &#8220;and Mordecai speaketh to send back unto Esther: &#8216;Do not think in thy soul to be delivered [in] the house of the king, more than all the Jews,&#8221; (YLT.)
</p>
<p>
Job 3:20: &#8220;&#8216;Why is light given to him who suffers,
<br />
         And life to the bitter of soul,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 4:15-19: &#8220;Then a spirit passed by my face;
<br />
         The hair of my flesh bristled up. 
<br />
    &#8216;It stood still, but I could not discern its appearance;
<br />
         A form was before my eyes;
<br />
         There was silence, then I heard a voice: 
<br />
    &#8216;Can mankind be just before God?
<br />
         Can a man be pure before his Maker? 
<br />
    &#8216;He puts no trust even in His servants;
<br />
         And against His angels He charges error. 
<br />
    &#8216;How much more those who <b>dwell in houses of clay</b>,
<br />
         Whose foundation is in the dust,
<br />
         Who are crushed before the moth!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 6:4, 7: &#8220;For the arrows of the Almighty are within me,
<br />
         Their poison my spirit drinks;
<br />
         The terrors of God are arrayed against me. [...] &#8216;My soul refuses to touch them;
<br />
         They are like loathsome food to me.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 7:11, 15: &#8220;Therefore I will not restrain my mouth;
<br />
         I will speak in the anguish of my spirit,
<br />
         I will complain in the bitterness of my soul. [...] So that my soul would choose suffocation,
<br />
         Death rather than my pains.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 10:1: &#8220;&#8216;My soul loathes my life;
<br />
      I will give free course to my complaint, 
<br />
      I will speak in the bitterness of my soul.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Job 10:12: &#8220;&#8216;You have granted me life and lovingkindness;
<br />
         And Your care has preserved my spirit.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 14:22: &#8220;Only&#8212;his flesh for him is pained, And his soul for him doth mourn.&#8217;&#8221; (YLT.)
</p>
<p>
Job 15:12-13: &#8220;Why does your heart carry you away?
<br />
         And why do your eyes flash, 
<br />
    That you should turn your spirit against God
<br />
         And allow such words to go out of your mouth?&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 19:2: &#8220;&#8216;How long will you torment my soul,
<br />
      And break me in pieces with words?&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Job 21:25: &#8220;While another dies with a bitter soul,
<br />
         Never even tasting anything good.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 24:12: &#8220;&#8216;From the city men groan,
<br />
         And the souls of the wounded cry out;
<br />
         Yet God does not pay attention to folly.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 27:2: &#8220;&#8216;As God lives, who has taken away my right,
<br />
         And the Almighty, who has embittered my soul,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 30:16, 25: &#8220;&#8216;And now my soul is poured out within me;
<br />
         Days of affliction have seized me. [...] &#8216;Have I not wept for the one whose life is hard?
<br />
         Was not my soul grieved for the needy?&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Job 32:8, 18: &#8220;But there is a spirit in man,
<br />
      And the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. [...] For I am full of words;
<br />
      The spirit within me compels me.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Job 33:18-22, 24, 28-30: &#8220;He keeps back his soul from the Pit,
<br />
      And his life from perishing by the sword.
<br />
 &#8216;Man is also chastened with pain on his bed,
<br />
      And with strong pain in many of his bones,
<br />
 So that his life abhors bread,
<br />
      And his soul succulent food.
<br />
 His flesh wastes away from sight,
<br />
      And his bones stick out which once were not seen.
<br />
 Yes, his soul draws near the Pit,
<br />
      And his life to the executioners. [...] Then He is gracious to him, and says,
<br />
      &#8216;Deliver him from going down to the Pit; 
<br />
      I have found a ransom&#8217;; [...] He will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
<br />
      And his life shall see the light.
<br />
 &#8216;Behold, God works all these things,
<br />
      Twice, in fact, three times with a man,
<br />
 To bring back his soul from the Pit,
<br />
      That he may be enlightened with the light of life.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Job 38:36: &#8220;Who has put wisdom in the innermost being
<br />
         Or given understanding to the mind?&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 6:2-3: &#8220;Have mercy on me, O LORD, for I am weak;
<br />
         O LORD, heal me, for my bones are troubled.
<br />
 My soul also is greatly troubled;
<br />
         But You, O LORD—how long?&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 10:3: &#8220;Because the wicked hath boasted Of the desire of his soul, And a dishonest gainer he hath blessed, He hath despised Jehovah.&#8221; (YLT.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 11:1: &#8220;In the LORD I take refuge;
<br />
         How can you say to my soul, &#8216;Flee as a bird to your mountain;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 13:2: &#8220;How long shall I take counsel in my soul,
<br />
         Having sorrow in my heart all the day?
<br />
         How long will my enemy be exalted over me?&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 16:10: &#8220;For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
<br />
         Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 19:7: &#8220;The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul;
<br />
         The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 23:3: &#8220;He restores my soul;
<br />
         He guides me in the paths of righteousness
<br />
         For His name&#8217;s sake.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 24:4: &#8220;He who has clean hands and a pure heart,
<br />
         Who has not lifted up his soul to falsehood
<br />
         And has not sworn deceitfully.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 25:1, 13, 20: &#8220;To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul. [...] His soul will abide in prosperity,
<br />
         And his descendants will inherit the land. [...] Guard my soul and deliver me;
<br />
         Do not let me be ashamed, for I take refuge in You.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 26:9: &#8220;Do not take my soul away along with sinners,
<br />
         Nor my life with men of bloodshed,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 31:5, 7, 9: &#8220;Into Your hand I commit my spirit;
<br />
         You have ransomed me, O LORD, God of truth. [...] I will rejoice and be glad in Your lovingkindness,
<br />
         Because You have seen my affliction;
<br />
         You have known the troubles of my soul, [...] Be gracious to me, O LORD, for I am in distress;
<br />
         My eye is wasted away from grief, my soul and my body also.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 32:2: &#8220;How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
<br />
         And in whose spirit there is no deceit!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 33:19-20: &#8220;To deliver their soul from death
<br />
         And to keep them alive in famine. 
<br />
    Our soul waits for the LORD;
<br />
         He is our help and our shield.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 34:2, 22: &#8220;My soul will make its boast in the LORD;
<br />
         The humble will hear it and rejoice. [...] The LORD redeems the soul of His servants,
<br />
         And none of those who take refuge in Him will be condemned.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 35:3, 7-9, 12-13, 17:"Draw also the spear and the battle-axe to meet those who pursue me;
<br />
         Say to my soul, &#8216;I am your salvation.&#8217; [...] For without cause they hid their net for me;
<br />
         Without cause they dug a pit for my soul. 
<br />
    Let destruction come upon him unawares,
<br />
         And let the net which he hid catch himself;
<br />
         Into that very destruction let him fall. 
<br />
    And my soul shall rejoice in the LORD;
<br />
         It shall exult in His salvation. [...] They repay me evil for good,
<br />
         To the bereavement of my soul. 
<br />
    But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth;
<br />
         I humbled my soul with fasting,
<br />
         And my prayer kept returning to my bosom. [...] Lord, how long will You look on?
<br />
         Rescue my soul from their ravages,
<br />
         My only life from the lions.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 41:4: &#8220;As for me, I said, &#8216;O LORD, be gracious to me;
<br />
         Heal my soul, for I have sinned against You.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 42:1-2, 4-7, 11: &#8220;As the deer pants for the water brooks,
<br />
         So my soul pants for You, O God. 
<br />
    My soul thirsts for God, for the living God;
<br />
         When shall I come and appear before God? [...] These things I remember and I pour out my soul within me 
<br />
         For I used to go along with the throng and lead them in procession to the house of God,
<br />
         With the voice of joy and thanksgiving, a multitude keeping festival. 
<br />
    Why are you in despair, O my soul?
<br />
         And why have you become disturbed within me?
<br />
         Hope in God, for I shall again praise Him
<br />
         For the help of His presence. 
<br />
    O my God, my soul is in despair within me;
<br />
         Therefore I remember You from the land of the Jordan
<br />
         And the peaks of Hermon, from Mount Mizar. 
<br />
    Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls;
<br />
         All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. [...] Why are you in despair, O my soul?
<br />
         And why have you become disturbed within me?
<br />
         Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him,
<br />
         The help of my countenance and my God.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 43:5: &#8220;Why are you in despair, O my soul?
<br />
         And why are you disturbed within me?
<br />
         Hope in God, for I shall again praise Him,
<br />
         The help of my countenance and my God.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 44:25: &#8220;For our soul has sunk down into the dust;
<br />
         Our body cleaves to the earth.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 51:6, 10: &#8220;Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
<br />
         And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom. [...] Create in me a clean heart, O God,
<br />
         And renew a steadfast spirit within me.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 56:13: &#8220;For You have delivered my soul from death,
<br />
         Indeed my feet from stumbling,
<br />
         So that I may walk before God
<br />
         In the light of the living.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 57:1, 6: &#8220;Be gracious to me, O God, be gracious to me,
<br />
         For my soul takes refuge in You;
<br />
         And in the shadow of Your wings I will take refuge
<br />
         Until destruction passes by. [...] They have prepared a net for my steps;
<br />
         My soul is bowed down;
<br />
         They dug a pit before me;
<br />
         They themselves have fallen into the midst of it. Selah.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 62:1, 5: &#8220;My soul waits in silence for God only;
<br />
         From Him is my salvation. [...] My soul, wait in silence for God only,
<br />
         For my hope is from Him.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 63:1, 5, 8: &#8220;O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly;
<br />
         My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You,
<br />
         In a dry and weary land where there is no water. [...] My soul is satisfied as with marrow and fatness,
<br />
         And my mouth offers praises with joyful lips. [...] My soul clings to You;
<br />
         Your right hand upholds me.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 69:10, 18: &#8220;When I wept in my soul with fasting,
<br />
         It became my reproach. [...] Oh draw near to my soul and redeem it;
<br />
         Ransom me because of my enemies!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 71:23: &#8220;My lips will shout for joy when I sing praises to You;
<br />
         And my soul, which You have redeemed.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 77:2, 3, 6: &#8220;In the day of my trouble I sought the Lord;
<br />
         In the night my hand was stretched out [a]without weariness;
<br />
         My soul refused to be comforted. 
<br />
    When I remember God, then I am disturbed;
<br />
         When I sigh, then my spirit grows faint. Selah. [...] I will remember my song in the night;
<br />
         I will meditate with my heart,
<br />
         And my spirit ponders:&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 78:8: &#8220;And not be like their fathers,
<br />
         A stubborn and rebellious generation,
<br />
         A generation that did not prepare its heart
<br />
         And whose spirit was not faithful to God.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 84:2: &#8220;My soul longed and even yearned for the courts of the LORD;
<br />
         My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 86:4: &#8220;Make glad the soul of Your servant,
<br />
         For to You, O Lord, I lift up my soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 94:19: &#8220;When my anxious thoughts multiply within me,
<br />
         Your consolations delight my soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 103:1-2, 22: &#8220;Bless the LORD, O my soul,
<br />
         And all that is within me, bless His holy name. 
<br />
    Bless the LORD, O my soul,
<br />
         And forget none of His benefits; [...] Bless the LORD, all you works of His,
<br />
         In all places of His dominion;
<br />
         Bless the LORD, O my soul!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 104:1, 35: &#8220;Bless the LORD, O my soul!
<br />
         O LORD my God, You are very great;
<br />
         You are clothed with splendor and majesty, [...] Let sinners be consumed from the earth
<br />
         And let the wicked be no more 
<br />
         Bless the LORD, O my soul 
<br />
         Praise the LORD!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 107:18, 26: &#8220;Their soul abhorred all kinds of food,
<br />
         And they drew near to the gates of death. [...] They rose up to the heavens, they went down to the depths;
<br />
         Their soul melted away in their misery.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 116:7-8: &#8220;Return to your rest, O my soul,
<br />
         For the LORD has dealt bountifully with you. 
<br />
    For You have rescued my soul from death,
<br />
         My eyes from tears,
<br />
         My feet from stumbling.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 119:20, 25, 28, 81, 129, 167, 175: &#8220;My soul is crushed with longing
<br />
         After Your ordinances at all times. [...] My soul cleaves to the dust;
<br />
         Revive me according to Your word. [...] My soul weeps because of grief;
<br />
         Strengthen me according to Your word. [...] My soul languishes for Your salvation;
<br />
         I wait for Your word. [...] Your testimonies are wonderful;
<br />
         Therefore my soul observes them. [...] My soul keeps Your testimonies,
<br />
         And I love them exceedingly. [...] Let my soul live that it may praise You,
<br />
         And let Your ordinances help me.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 123:4: &#8220;Our soul is greatly filled
<br />
         With the scoffing of those who are at ease,
<br />
         And with the contempt of the proud.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 130:5-6: &#8220;I wait for the LORD, my soul does wait,
<br />
         And in His word do I hope. 
<br />
    My soul waits for the Lord
<br />
         More than the watchmen for the morning;
<br />
         Indeed, more than the watchmen for the morning.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 131:2: &#8220;Surely I have composed and quieted my soul;
<br />
         Like a weaned child rests against his mother,
<br />
         My soul is like a weaned child within me.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 138:3: &#8220;On the day I called, You answered me;
<br />
         You made me bold with strength in my soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psqalm 139:14: &#8220;I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
<br />
         Wonderful are Your works,
<br />
         And my soul knows it very well.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 142:3, 7: &#8220;When my spirit was overwhelmed within me,
<br />
         You knew my path 
<br />
         In the way where I walk
<br />
         They have hidden a trap for me. [...] Bring my soul out of prison,
<br />
         So that I may give thanks to Your name;
<br />
         The righteous will surround me,
<br />
         For You will deal bountifully with me.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 143:3-4, 6-8: &#8220;For the enemy has persecuted my soul;
<br />
         He has crushed my life to the ground;
<br />
         He has made me dwell in dark places, like those who have long been dead. 
<br />
    Therefore my spirit is overwhelmed within me;
<br />
         My heart is appalled within me. [...] I stretch out my hands to You;
<br />
         My soul longs for You, as a parched land. Selah. 
<br />
    Answer me quickly, O LORD, my spirit fails;
<br />
         Do not hide Your face from me,
<br />
         Or I will become like those who go down to the pit. 
<br />
    Let me hear Your lovingkindness in the morning;
<br />
         For I trust in You;
<br />
         Teach me the way in which I should walk;
<br />
         For to You I lift up my soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Psalm 146:1: &#8220;Praise the LORD!
<br />
         Praise the LORD, O my soul!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 2:10: &#8220;For wisdom will enter your heart
<br />
         And knowledge will be pleasant to your soul;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 3:21-22: &#8220;My son, let them not vanish from your sight;
<br />
         Keep sound wisdom and discretion, 
<br />
    So they will be life to your soul
<br />
         And adornment to your neck.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 11:17: &#8220;The merciful man does good for his own soul, 
<br />
      But he who is cruel troubles his own flesh.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 11:30: &#8220;The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
<br />
         And he who is wise wins souls.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 13:19: &#8220;Desire realized is sweet to the soul,
<br />
         But it is an abomination to fools to turn away from evil.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 15:4, 13: &#8220;A soothing tongue is a tree of life,
<br />
         But perversion in it crushes the spirit. [...] A joyful heart makes a cheerful face,
<br />
         But when the heart is sad, the spirit is broken.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 16:24, 32: &#8220;Pleasant words are a honeycomb,
<br />
         Sweet to the soul and healing to the bones. [...] He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty,
<br />
         And he who rules his spirit, than he who captures a city.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 18:14: &#8220;The spirit of a man can endure his sickness,
<br />
         But as for a broken spirit who can bear it?&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 20:27, 30: &#8220;The spirit of man is the lamp of the LORD,
<br />
         Searching all the innermost parts of his being. [...] Stripes that wound scour away evil,
<br />
         And strokes reach the innermost parts.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 21:10: &#8220;The soul of the wicked desires evil;
<br />
         His neighbor finds no favor in his eyes.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 23:7: &#8220;For as he hath thought in his soul, so [is] he, &#8216;Eat and drink,&#8217; saith he to thee, And his heart [is] not with thee.&#8221; (YLT.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 24:12-14: &#8220;If you say, &#8216;See, we did not know this,&#8217;
<br />
         Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
<br />
         And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
<br />
         And will He not render to man according to his work? 
<br />
    My son, eat honey, for it is good,
<br />
         Yes, the honey from the comb is sweet to your taste; 
<br />
    Know that wisdom is thus for your soul;
<br />
         If you find it, then there will be a future,
<br />
         And your hope will not be cut off.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 25:13, 28: &#8220;Like the cold of snow in the time of harvest
<br />
         Is a faithful messenger to those who send him,
<br />
         For he refreshes the soul of his masters. [...] Like a city that is broken into and without walls
<br />
         Is a man who has no control over his spirit.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 28:25: &#8220;Whoso is proud in soul stirreth up contention, And whoso is trusting on Jehovah is made fat.&#8221; (YLT.)
</p>
<p>
Proverbs 29:17: &#8220;Correct your son, and he will give you comfort;
<br />
         He will also delight your soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Ecclesiastes 3:21: &#8220;Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?&#8221; (ESV.)
</p>
<p>
Ecclesiastes 6:2-3, 9: &#8220;a man to whom God has given riches and wealth and honor so that his soul lacks nothing of all that he desires; yet God has not empowered him to eat from them, for a foreigner enjoys them. This is vanity and a severe affliction. 
<br />
 If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, &#8216;Better the miscarriage than he, [...] What the eyes see is better than what the soul desires. This too is futility and a striving after wind.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Ecclesiastes 7:8-9, 27-28: &#8220;Better is the end of a thing than its beginning,
<br />
   and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.
<br />
Be not quick in your spirit to become angry,
<br />
    for anger lodges in the bosom of fools. [...] Behold, this is what I found, says the Preacher, while adding one thing to another to find the scheme of things— which my soul has sought repeatedly, but I have not found. One man among a thousand I found, but a woman among all these I have not found.&#8221; (ESV.)
</p>
<p>
Ecclesiastes 8:8: &#8220;No one has power over the spirit to retain the spirit, 
<br />
      And no one has power in the day of death. 
<br />
      There is no release from that war, 
<br />
      And wickedness will not deliver those who are given to it.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Song of Solomon 1:7: &#8220;&#8216;Tell me, O you whom my soul loves,
<br />
         Where do you pasture your flock,
<br />
         Where do you make it lie down at noon?
<br />
         For why should I be like one who veils herself
<br />
         Beside the flocks of your companions?&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Song of Solomon 3:1-4: &#8220;&#8216;On my bed night after night I sought him
<br />
         Whom my soul loves;
<br />
         I sought him but did not find him. 
<br />
    &#8216;I must arise now and go about the city;
<br />
         In the streets and in the squares
<br />
         I must seek him whom my soul loves.&#8217;
<br />
         I sought him but did not find him. 
<br />
    &#8216;The watchmen who make the rounds in the city found me,
<br />
         And I said, &#8216;Have you seen him whom my soul loves?&#8217; 
<br />
    &#8216;Scarcely had I left them
<br />
         When I found him whom my soul loves;
<br />
         I held on to him and would not let him go
<br />
         Until I had brought him to my mother&#8217;s house,
<br />
         And into the room of her who conceived me.&#8217;&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Song of Solomon 5:6: &#8220;I opened to my beloved,
<br />
   but my beloved had turned and gone.
<br />
My soul failed me when he spoke. I sought him, but found him not;
<br />
    I called him, but he gave no answer.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 10:18: &#8220;And He will destroy the glory of his forest and of his fruitful garden, both soul and body,
<br />
         And it will be as when a sick man wastes away.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 15:4: &#8220;Heshbon and Elealeh also cry out,
<br />
         Their voice is heard all the way to Jahaz;
<br />
         Therefore the armed men of Moab cry aloud;
<br />
         His soul trembles within him.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 19:10: &#8220;And the pillars of Egypt will be crushed;
<br />
         All the hired laborers will be grieved in soul.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 26:8-9: &#8220;Indeed, while following the way of Your judgments, O LORD,
<br />
         We have waited for You eagerly;
<br />
         Your name, even Your memory, is the desire of our souls. 
<br />
    At night my soul longs for You,
<br />
         Indeed, my spirit within me seeks You diligently;
<br />
         For when the earth experiences Your judgments
<br />
         The inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 38:12-13, 15-16: &#8220;Like a shepherd&#8217;s tent my dwelling is pulled up and removed from me;
<br />
         As a weaver I rolled up my life 
<br />
         He cuts me off from the loom;
<br />
         From day until night You make an end of me. 
<br />
    I composed my soul until morning.
<br />
         Like a lion--so He breaks all my bones,
<br />
         From day until night You make an end of me. [...] What shall I say?
<br />
         For He has spoken to me, and He Himself has done it;
<br />
         I will wander about all my years because of the bitterness of my soul. 
<br />
    O Lord, by these things men live,
<br />
         And in all these is the life of my spirit;
<br />
         O restore me to health and let me live!&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 42:5 &#8220;Thus says God the LORD,
<br />
         Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
<br />
         Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
<br />
         Who gives breath to the people on it
<br />
         And spirit to those who walk in it,&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 53:11-12: &#8220;Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
<br />
    make many to be accounted righteous,
<br />
    and he shall bear their iniquities.
<br />
 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
<br />
    and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
<br />
because he poured out his soul to death
<br />
   and was numbered with the transgressors;
<br />
yet he bore the sin of many,
<br />
   and makes intercession for the transgressors.&#8221; (ESV.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 55:2-3: &#8220;Why do you spend money for what is not bread, 
<br />
      And your wages for what does not satisfy? 
<br />
      Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, 
<br />
      And let your soul delight itself in abundance. 
<br />
        Incline your ear, and come to Me. 
<br />
      Hear, and your soul shall live; 
<br />
      And I will make an everlasting covenant with you— 
<br />
      The sure mercies of David.&#8221; (NKJV.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 57:15-16: &#8220;For thus says the high and exalted One
<br />
         Who lives forever, whose name is Holy,
<br />
         &#8216;I dwell on a high and holy place,
<br />
         And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit
<br />
         In order to revive the spirit of the lowly
<br />
         And to revive the heart of the contrite. 
<br />
    &#8216;For I will not contend forever,
<br />
         Nor will I always be angry;
<br />
         For the spirit would grow faint before Me,
<br />
         And the breath of those whom I have made.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 61:10: &#8220;I will rejoice greatly in the LORD,
<br />
         My soul will exult in my God;
<br />
         For He has clothed me with garments of salvation,
<br />
         He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness,
<br />
         As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland,
<br />
         And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 65:14: &#8220;Behold, My servants will shout joyfully with a glad heart,
<br />
         But you will cry out with a heavy heart,
<br />
         And you will wail with a broken spirit.&#8221; (NASB.)
</p>
<p>
Isaiah 66:3: &#8220;&#8216;But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
<br />
         He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog&#8217;s neck;
<br />
         He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine&#8217;s blood;
<br />
         He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol 
<br />
         As they have chosen their own ways,
<br />
         And their soul delights in their abominations,&#8221; (NASB.)</p></blockquote>
<p>
<b>Continued in next post...</b>
</p>
<p>
Jeremy
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>For Whom Did Christ Die&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/425/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2011:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.425</id>
      <published>2011-04-29T17:01:34Z</published>
      <updated>2011-04-30T13:24:15Z</updated>
      <author><name>Dan Hagan</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>This will (hopefully) be a long, respectful thread discussing the subject question from a purely biblical perspective.
</p>
<p>
Let us get started. Although I doubt this will stay civil for very long.... (Please prove me wrong.)
</p>
<p>
Statement:
</p>
<p>
The atonement is the work of God in Christ Jesus on the cross of Calvary. In this Holy work, He, being innocent of sin and without blemish, was fully qualified to bear our sins and in doing so voluntarily paid the massive debt to God for our sin. By His sacrifice, He fully satisfied or appeased God&#8217;s holy wrath that was due us, and obtained for us as believers, the benefits of salvation. The death of His Only Begotten Son was absolutely necessary because God would not, and could not, by His very character infringe upon, or diminish in any way his perfect justice and glory. The diminution of God&#8217;s perfect justice is exactly what would have happened if he had forever ignored man&#8217;s sin without full recompense.
</p>
<p>
Comment:
</p>
<p>
The fully developed concept of a &#8220;penal substitutionary atonement&#8221; sounds to many as being a Calvinistic idea or invention. However, this concept came to a full understanding in the church long before the Reformation. It was clearly espoused by Augustine in the late 4th century, by Anselm in the 11th century, and further refined by Aquinas in the 13th century. Even the very word &#8220;atonement&#8221; is used by the Apostle Paul (below in Romans) and occurs 98 times in the OT (NIV version) generally referring to the Mercy or Atonement Seat of Yahweh. Perhaps (in my estimation or judgement) foreshadowing the future work of Christ. Then it is again used four more times in the NT, in the salvational context given in Romans 3.
</p>
<p>
Conclusion:
</p>
<p>
If the Christian cannot grasp and hold to the atonement that is achieved by Christ for us; then there&#8217;s no need to go further with the discussion. Please read and understand Romans 3:21-26 (NIV)
</p>
<blockquote><p>21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. </p></blockquote>
<p>
Next up: The concept of &#8220;Limited Atonement&#8221; (The best is yet to come!) ;--)
</p>
<p>
If you&#8217;re going to disagree with anything on this new topic (thread) then please do so via scripture alone! 
</p>
<p>
In Christ,
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Questions on Preterism</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/392/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2011:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.392</id>
      <published>2011-03-17T21:19:39Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>BobJ</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>Well, here goes . . .
</p>
<p>
I&#8217;ve been thinking about preterism a bit.&nbsp; Wondering how the people living just prior to ad70  understood the coming of the Lord.&nbsp; 
</p>
<p>
Also, wondering if they did assume that the Lord was to return in that generation, is it fair to apply the test of a false prophet (Deut 18) in that case?&nbsp; Josephus mentions an event that sounds like the coming of the Lord around ad65.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve heard that there is a significant downside to preterism--a bit of discouragement if it&#8217;s true . . . maybe we&#8217;ve been sold a bunch of baloney . . . or are we to expect a third (future to us) coming?&nbsp;   
</p>
<p>
Here&#8217;s the problem as I see it:&nbsp; If the Lord promised to return to that generation, and didn&#8217;t, is it fatal to Christianity?&nbsp; If he promised to return and indeed did return, how does that change the game for us now?&nbsp; Is the church age over, is the great commission fulfilled?&nbsp; Was the time of the gentiles the period between ad66 and ad70?&nbsp; 
</p>
<p>
Any thoughts, good reading materials, pro or con?
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>A PHARISEE AND A CALVINIST</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/352/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2009:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.352</id>
      <published>2009-12-24T19:18:07Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>Stan Ermshar</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>Thabiti Anyabwile of the Pure Church blog wrote a recent piece here that is just priceless, and gives me a lot of food for thought. Sometimes we just have to be theologically correct. This is not wrong in itself, but we must be careful not to become too prideful.
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabitianyabwile/2009/12/20/calvinist-confessions-1/">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/thabitianyabwile/2009/12/20/calvinist-confessions-1/</a>
</p>
<p>
The article appears below and I have highlighted in bold some of the points that spoke to me:
</p>
<p>
<b>I’m a Pharisee. And I’m a Calvinist.
</p>
<p>
Those things should not go together. But they do in far too many instances. The Calvinist should be the last to become a Pharisee. Our theology should keep us humble. Or, so we’re told.</b>
</p>
<p>
But I’m a Pharisee. And I’m a Calvinist. Which means I’m a bad Calvinist.
</p>
<p>
Here’s the first reason I’m a Pharisee and Calvinist, or, one reason why those two things happen together far more often than they should. <b>The Pharisee and the Calvinist are both exacting persons. They care about precision, about “getting things right.” They care about the letter because each believes getting the letter correct is important. And it is.</b>
</p>
<p>
So, there is this “bent” toward intellectual things. There is this tendency to live in our heads. And when that meets with a theological tradition as rich and robust as the Reformed tradition, sparks fly–in our heads.<b> Add to that a pinch of argumentative spirit and out comes the Pharisee.</b>
</p>
<p>
But you know what’s lost? The spirit, or the Spirit. Sometimes both. The letter kills. That’s what happens with us Calvinist Pharisees.
</p>
<p>
<b>In my particular case, the letter became pretty important once I realized I had spent a few years of my life giving praise to an idol. Once I realized I had believed a lie and bowed to a god who was not God, well getting things correct theologically became desperately important. Who wants to “get it wrong” in the things of God? I certainly didn’t any longer</b>.
</p>
<p>
I didn’t know it, but I began the Christian life with this impulse that could either help me grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, and/or push me into peevish, narrow, gnat straining regard for “getting it right.” I’ve experienced both in my Christian life. The difference is made by where you’re aiming: those who aim at knowing Jesus escape so much pharisee-ism; those that aim at “getting it right” become so much more Pharisaical.
</p>
<p>
Perhaps you’re like me. You’ve had some experience that’s left you zealous for getting it right. You love the Book in part because you love parsing things, dissecting them, weighing them, identifying what is wanting, tossing the chaff and holding onto the wheat. There’s a joy that comes from discovery–and refutation. <b>Soon, you’re proud you’re not “one of those publicans” that explains the Trinity in loose language, that balks at giving various views of the atonement, that’s read the latest book from one of “those authors.” “Lord,” you pray, “I work to get it right. I avoid mistakes. I protect your word. I’m not like those who ‘happily’ accept ‘weak’ doctrine.”</b>
</p>
<p>
Truthfully, it isn’t our theology that keeps us from the self-righteousness of the Pharisee. Our theology, and the smugness of “Reformed” correctness, are part of the problem. Oh, I don’t mean we have aberrant ideas mingled with our theological outlook. We’d never have that. I mean all this heady truth barely lights our hearts. Our theology becomes the handmaid of our pride and our empty orthodoxy. Our fine theological theorems too seldom ignite liberty, joy, love, or anything else that accompanies the Spirit. <b>Honestly, how often does your theology leave you with Jesus?</b>
</p>
<p>
I know. The Lord reveals Himself in and by the word. The Spirit and the word belong together. Pharisee.
</p>
<p>
<b>Do you remember that time when you were free? No, I mean happily care-free in your walk with the Lord. When there was lightness to everything?</b>
</p>
<p>
Do you remember when you could share with others something God was teaching you, perhaps with imprecise language and a lot of enthusiasm, without first hesitating to make sure you were saying it “correctly”? Perhaps you were too liberal in assigning your enthusiasm or ideas to God, but you were happily excited about the possibility that indeed God had done something in you, for you, through you. Do you remember that?
</p>
<p>
I do. It was before I was self-consciously “Reformed.” I didn’t have a label then, other than “Christian” or “Baptist.” Even those I held lightly. I was label-less, free. And I felt free. I did dumb stuff. I said dumber stuff. But people knew what I meant. Then I discovered what I meant, and knowing what I meant seemed to replace experiencing what I meant.
</p>
<p>
Now, “experience” is a bad word. Pharisee.
</p>
<p>
Yep. That’s me.
</p>
<p>
<b>Don’t get me wrong. I’m a “Calvinist” because what we popularly call “Calvinism” or “Reformed Theology” looks a whole lot like what I understand from the Bible. I think that’s what the Bible teaches, and that’s what I believe. So, I’m comfortable with the label–if we have to use one. I’m just not comfortable with the self-righteousness I see all too often in my heart and life. I’m sure I was self-righteous before; after all, I was an adherent of the world’s largest works-based religion. Pride and self-justification have always been there. Yep. Certified Pharisee here.</b>
</p>
<p>
<b>But here’s the bottom line: As long as my inclination toward detail ends with “getting it right” and not with getting more of Jesus, I’m going to be a Pharisee. Our theology doesn’t keep us humble. Jesus keeps us humble. I think there are a lot of Calvinist Pharisees out there, like me, who push deeper into the theology trusting the next truth to abase them before God. But we keep getting “puffed up” instead. Why? We settle for knowing more rather than knowing Jesus. We don’t stop to sit at Christ’s feet, to adore Him, to commune with God the Spirit. Far too often, that’s not the goal we have in mind.</b>
</p>
<p>
<b>My grandmother couldn’t cite you two theological terms if you paid her. She probably never heard of the theological “giants” of church history, and certainly never read them. You know what she did? She “had a little talk with Jesus, told Him all about her troubles. He would hear her faintest cry, and answer by and by.” With all her “little talks with Jesus,” she had infinitely more than I’ve gotten from my books. She walked with the Lord about like Enoch.</b>
</p>
<p>
I know. Books are not the enemy. Books are our friends. Communing with the saints is important. That’s how we get it right and avoid mistakes. I know. I know. Pharisee.
</p>
<p>
There was another “Calvinist” (speaking anachronistically, of course) who won his bout with his inner Pharisee. <b>He wrote: “I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord” (Phil. 3:8). I want to be more like that brother–gripped by the greatness of knowing Jesus.
</p>
<p>
Lord, let us know you and cease the pretension of Pharisees.</b>
</p>
<p>
---------------------------------------------
</p>
<p>
The author of the above piece was a Muslim at one time. I have always enjoyed reading his material.
</p>
<p>
Stan
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>1982 Prophetic Guidance Workshop</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/114/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2007:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.114</id>
      <published>2007-01-23T04:32:02Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>guibox</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>As I began to read some of Graeme Bradford&#8217;s &#8216;More Than a Prophet&#8217;, both he and Bacchiocchi in the foreword mention this workshop.
</p>
<p>
(Parentheses, bold and italics are mine)
</p>
<p>
By Bacchiocchi:
</p>
<blockquote><p>What I found most informative (of Bradford&#8217;s research) is the analysis of the attempts made by Adventist church leaders and scholars at the 1919 Bible Conference and more recently at the 1982 Prophetic Guidance Workshop sponsored by the E. G. White Estate, to deal with prevailing misconceptions over the inspiration of Ellen White. <b>At both meetings it was agreed to take steps to inform the church membership about the borrowing of Ellen White and her inaccuracies in the area of history, science, and theology</b>. It was agreed that a correct understanding of her limitations, <i>did not negate her inspiration, but would certainly affect her function and authority. Tragically, no steps were ever taken, because it was felt that Adventist members would be shaken by the new information, which was so different from what they had been taught.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>
And this from Bradford in his introduction:
</p>
<blockquote><p>
Olsen and Graybill were involved in the 1982 &#8220;International Prophetic Guidance Workshop&#8221; which provided much helpful material. Unfortunately this material was never shared with the Adventist church membership at large. In this respect the 1982 meetings may be compared with the &#8220;after-meeting&#8221; of the 1919 Bible Conference where denominational leaders and teachers also shared their concerns about the wrong use being made of the gift of prophecy as found in the ministry of Ellen White. At that Conference a few spoke from first hand experience, for they had been involved in producing some of her books. Concerns were raised and valuable material shared. <b>Unfortunately, neither the 1919 nor the 1982 material was ever shared with church membership</b>. At times I will draw upon some of this valuable research and observations.</p></blockquote>
<p>
Before I read on and most likely discover the answers to my questions on this conference, has anybody here heard of this conference and what happened there? I never have!
</p>
<p>
I will probably share more things with you all as I continue reading this timely and important book.
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>The Mystery of the Trinity &#45; Video series by Dr. R.C. Sproul</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/376/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2010:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.376</id>
      <published>2010-10-06T14:54:51Z</published>
      <updated>2010-10-06T14:55:54Z</updated>
      <author><name>JeremyG</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>I recently watched a series of lectures entitled &#8220;The Mystery of the Trinity&#8221; on Dr. R.C. Sproul&#8217;s program <i>Renewing Your Mind Video</i>, available at oneplace.com, at the following link: <a href="http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/renewing-your-mind-video/listen/broadcast-archives-series.html/#The+Mystery+of+the+Trinity">http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/renewing-your-mind-video/listen/broadcast-archives-series.html/#The+Mystery+of+the+Trinity</a> (Part 1 is at the bottom, and they go in order from bottom to top.)
</p>
<p>
I highly recommend that every former Adventist (and current Adventist) watch this excellent series, which consists of 6 short (approximately 23 minute) parts. It is a very helpful overview of the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity and it&#8217;s history in the early Christian church. Dr. Sproul even discusses Christology (in &#8220;Fifth-Century Heresies"), and examines the opposite heresies of Nestorianism and Monophysitism/Eutychianism (Adventism somehow seems to have elements of both of these heresies). 
</p>
<p>
It is clear from this series that Adventism has merely stolen orthodox terms and poured their own definitions into the words, with regard to the doctrine of the Trinity (including the term &#8220;Trinity&#8221; itself), as heretics have done throughout Church history (which has caused the Church to have to change its own terminology in order to avoid confusion). Anyone who is familiar with Adventism will see that Dr. Sproul makes it clear that Adventism is not Trinitarian.
</p>
<p>
Jeremy
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Pretrib Rapture&#8212;Doctrines of demons</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/412/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2011:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.412</id>
      <published>2011-04-13T16:34:04Z</published>
      <updated>2011-05-10T15:06:58Z</updated>
      <author><name>Larry</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>Why would a demon not deceive these people into adding to Revelation?
</p>
<p>
Do they not hear Jesus warning?
</p>
<p>
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. Rev 22.18
</p>
<p>
Or are they trying to signal to us their eternal status?
</p>
<p>
With the rapture teaching that satan knows first that he only has 7 years before Christs 2nd coming, and then he breaks a covenant with Israel and knows he only has 3.5 years left, aren&#8217;t the promoters of such teachings really signalling who their father is? If they teach that satan knows, then he is their father!
</p>
<p>
But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the<b> Father</b>. Matt 24
</p>
      ]]>
      </content>
    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Chosen By God by RC Sproul</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/390/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2011:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.390</id>
      <published>2011-03-10T12:00:47Z</published>
      <updated>2011-03-10T12:01:23Z</updated>
      <author><name>Scrip</name></author>
      <content type="html">
      <![CDATA[
        <p>Chosen By God 
<br />
  
<br />
 
<br />
Anyone familiar with Calvinism will find little new in this book, which is simply a re-hash of the &#8220;doctrines&#8221; so dear to the heart of the confirmed Calvinist. Oh, there is some tinkering with the well known T.U.L.I.P. acronym, but the unscriptural conclusions of this theological system remain the same. Sproul echoes the party line and uses the proven weapons of Calvinism against all nay-sayers, the sound of his cannons drowning out all protest, if not silencing them. 
</p>
<p>
His armory contains the relatively few scriptures that deal with the basic premise of Calvinism; mainly, that God has selected before time began, those who would be saved. These individuals would be the recipient of a mysterious inner enabling that would cause them to believe the Gospel. The obvious counterpart to this teaching, is of course, that by electing some, God, by default at least, was also electing some to eternal punishment. 
</p>
<p>
This part of the theological equation is reluctantly acknowledged with much clarifying and a good deal of hedging, both by most Calvinists but here also by RC Sproul. No doubt sinners will go to Hell happier under Sproul&#8217;s explanation than the hyper Calvinist&#8217;s( or as the author calls them &#8220;sub-Calvinists"). The sub-Calvinist believes in double predestination which means that as God actively works on the elect to bring them to salvation, so He also actively works on the unsaved to make sure they don&#8217;t miss Hell. Sproul expresses horror at the implications to God&#8217;s character in this awful teaching. He is much more comfortable believing that God simply allows the sinner to go his way and thus justly wind up in Hell forever! Can anyone in their right mind find comfort for the honor of a God who does not lift His little finger to warn and save a blind sinner from an eternal Hell? And can anyone, except a Calvinist, believe that such a view as RC Sproul expresses is not as equally horrifying as the previous? Especially in light of the many clear passages to the contrary? 
</p>
<p>
RC Sproul has confidence in his weapons; he, like all Calvinists, believe that they are placed on the high ground of God&#8217;s Sovereignty. After all &#8220;Who are you, oh man, to reply to God?&#8221; The problem with this position is that no Christian denies the Sovereignty of God. However, the Calvinist&#8217;s assumes that he alone speaks for God, so any opposition to his incorrect view is, in his eyes, the enemy of God. To question the Calvinist, is to question God! The truth of God, that He is Sovereign and holy is often used as an intimidating club to keep those of us who disagree with Calvinism at bay. For the record, God can do ANYTHING at ANYTIME as long as it is full accord with His revealed character and will. We do NOT question God&#8217;s Sovereignty; we simply look to the scriptures to see how He has deigned to exercise it in love. We reserve the right to &#8220;question the spirits, to see if they be of God.&#8221; This includes the Calvinist, who trumpets his love for the character of God and then besmirches it with his awful misuse of the Scriptures.
</p>
<p>
And then RC Sproul not only has confidence in his weaponry and position, he also glories in his &#8220;army&#8221;, men who espouse Calvinism. He says the unacceptable in a gracious way which in no way mitigates his obnoxious conclusion. The bottom line is that RC Sproul takes an elitist position here that is totally out of keeping with Christianity. He divides this Calvinist militia into the past and the present, with the past rosily viewed as those who should be listened to, since they all agreed on this theology. He even gives us a little table of comparison of the &#8220;greats&#8221; of the past who presumably were Calvinists, even though they disagreed on other points.
</p>
<p>
Augustine, St. Augustine that is, heads the list, as well he should. He is the true Calvinist, the one who Calvin viewed as his spiritual father. That Augustine was brilliant no one can argue. But does brilliance guarantee spiritual validity of concepts? Or should this brilliant philosopher/Christian&#8217;s teachings be checked against that of &#8220;ignorant and unlearned&#8221; fishermen instructed by the Master? Or against one who proved that brilliance of intellect is neither a barrier or a boon to truth, the Apostle Paul? Unequivocally, yes! 
</p>
<p>
One only has to read one of Augustine&#8217;s sermons (the Good Samaritan passage comes to mind) to see the paucity of his hermeneutic skills. Such a sermon today would be a disgrace for a first year seminarian&#8217;s initial effort! Yet this is the mind and man behind Calvinism, one greatly influenced by his previous &#8220;spiritual&#8221; experiences and certainly the teachings of philosophy. One last comment on the so-called &#8220;church fathers&#8221;; one must realize that the Reformers for all their bravery and love for God, still made many mistakes, many of them from the influence of the errors of the &#8220;fathers! Perhaps the greatest Reformer&#8217;s mistake was to seek to reform the Catholic church rather than to leave and build a true church on the Apostolic teachings. May we learn from their grievous error and return fully to the scriptures and the Apostles, particularly Paul. 
</p>
<p>
We shall now respond to RC Sproul&#8217;s main point in Chosen By God. That is, his dealing with what he considers the main point of Calvinism, the depravity of man including his moral inability. In fact, he declares that if one accepts the Biblical view of human corruption, the debate about predestination is over. I for one, do accept the Biblical teaching on the sinfulness of man, but the Calvinist&#8217;s\Reformed solution to that condition is not predestination. Predestination deals with the ultimate place that God has ordained for every believer. Sinners are not predestined to salvation. People in Christ, believers, are all predestined for glorification with Christ and will ultimately be like Him in the beauty of holiness. 
</p>
<p>
The helplessness of the sinner in doing right gives the Calvinist opportunity to offer his unscriptural solution. Since the sinner is &#8220;dead&#8221;, the Calvinists would have God inject new life into him which would then cause him to believe on Jesus. So in effect, God raises someone from the dead and then they believe unto salvation. This is far superior, in their view, than a &#8220;mere external call&#8221;, that is, the Gospel preached. Amazingly, &#8220;mere external call&#8221; is RC Sproul&#8217;s description of preaching the Gospel! 
</p>
<p>
Let us consider a Biblical explanation and a Biblical example that correct this Calvinistic solution to the problem of man&#8217;s sin. First of all, the Calvinist persists in likening spiritual death to physical death. This is proven to be an error since both Adam and Eve were promised (threatened?) that in the day they ate the forbidden fruit they would die. They ate but they did not die physically as promised. Yet they died spiritually, that is, they were separated from God&#8217;s presence and blessing. They tried to cover up, hide, and they were afraid: they were aware of their lost condition even as &#8220;dead&#8221; people!
</p>
<p>
Another Biblical example of spiritual death misunderstood by Calvinists, is that of Lazarus. Christ raised him from the dead with no help from Lazarus. The Calvinist points to this as an example of Christ imparting life into a dead sinner. But this is a misuse of the actual experience since Lazarus was a saved man when he died. This is NOT a picture of a dead sinner raised to new life in Christ, but rather a preview of that time when Christ will physically raise all believer&#8217;s bodies to new life!
</p>
<p>
Back to dead Adam and Eve; how did they experience the grace of God to sinners? God came and preached the Gospel to them, even demonstrating same by shedding the blood of an animal to picture the death of the innocent Savior for sinners. Then He wrapped them in the coats of the animals, picturing the wrapping of sinners in the righteousness of Christ. This hid their nakedness (indicative of sin before God) from God&#8217;s all seeing eye. Thus they were restored to blessedness by His grace alone.
</p>
<p>
Consider the case of Cain, the first sinner to reject the Gospel. Instructed by his now Godly parents, his Godly brother&#8217;s blood sacrifice, and the pleadings of God, he nevertheless &#8220;went out from the presence of the Lord&#8221;. Here we see that Cain has no one to blame for his awful rejection of God&#8217;s Word except himself! We also see that contrary to the teachings of Calvinism, God strove desperately to draw Cain to himself, to no avail!
</p>
<p>
Thus it will always be; sinners will be saved by grace alone expressed in the Gospel which inspires faith. Sinners who are lost will have no one to blame except themselves for their stubborn unbelief. &#8220;Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.&#8221; The so-called &#8220;mere external call&#8221; is entirely valid and open to all or God is a liar. The Gospel is the power of God that sets the prisoner free into new life in Christ.
</p>
<p>
God gave His Son for a sinful world and He gave the Gospel to enable sinners to believe. In His Sovereignty, He has allowed man the one major privilege of obeying (believing) or disobeying (not believing) the Gospel. This is in keeping with the tremendous choice that Adam was allowed to make. As that one choice of Adam&#8217;s plunged us all into death, so our right choice places us in life … forever. John 5:24
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<p>
Dennis Clough
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<p>
All Scripture fron NIV
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>May 21, 2011&#45;&#45;Judgment Day. Really&#63;!</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/371/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2010:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.371</id>
      <published>2010-07-15T10:32:58Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>Azenilto Brito</name></author>
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        <p><span style="font-size:20px;"><b><span style="color:blue;">
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May 21, 2011--Judgment Day. Really?! </span></b></span>
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<span style="font-size:16px;">If you visit the website of the Evangelical ministry of the Family Radio (<a href="http://www.familyradio.com">http://www.familyradio.com</a>) you will see at the top of the screen a key to enter a section with Bible chronology studies on which it is written: <b>May 21, 2011—Judgment Day</b>. They seem convinced that at such date we will witness the end of the world.
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<br />Harold Camping, director of the Radio Family ministry, says that he has 99% of certainty that his calculations of the time of the Judgment Day are accurate, and admits only 1% of possibility that they are wrong. 
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<br />I do not deny the sincerity of him and his followers, but I believe that the equation is exactly the opposite. There is 1% possibility that the Judgment Day will occur on the 21st of May, 2011 (since it has to be one day. . .), and 99% that these calculations are flawed.
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<br />A famous philosopher said once that those who don’t learn with the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them. &#8216;Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses&#8217;, among several dates set for events that were never confirmed along their history, taught that 1975 would be the year when humanity would see the beginning of the millennium of peace. But nothing happened as expected. Their basis for calculation was about the same of the Family Radio folks--the text of 2 Ped. 3:8, “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day”.
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<br />The problem is that they take those words as a FIXED RATE, which makes no sense. Psalm 90:4 of the New World Translation, of the JW&#8217;s themselves, destroys that idea, as it says that “For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, <b>and</b> as a watch during the night”. 
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<br />What do we have here? TWO COMPARISONS – one thousand years for the humans is BOTH a complete day, and PART of a complete day, for God, since it would compare to a watch during the night. 
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<br />What one can realize from that is that the comparison is PURELY METAPHORICAL, not a fixed rate. If taken literally one might even absurdly be able to measure the size of God (at least timewise): If 1.000 human years is tantamount to 1 day for God, then God is only 365,000 times bigger than man.
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<br />Does that make any sense?</span>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>A Study of Morality</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/415/" />      
      <id>tag:forthegospel.org,2011:forum/general_discussion/ellen_white_and_the_issue_of_race_relations/viewthread/.415</id>
      <published>2011-04-15T00:17:06Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>newnature</name></author>
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        <p>At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price. 
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<p>
The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal. 
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Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,
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<a href="http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&amp;updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&amp;max-results=12">http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated;-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max;-results=12</a>
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<p>
Thanks for any insight.
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    </entry>


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