“The better Christian a man is, the more abashed he always feels; because to him sin is so exceedingly hateful, that what sin he sees in himself he loathes himself for far more than others do. The ungodly man would condone very great sin in himself; though he might know it to be there; it would not disturb him; but the Christian being another sort, having a love for holiness and a hatred for sin, cannot bear to see the smallest speck of sin upon himself: He knows what it is. There are persons living before the public eye, and jealous of popularity, who appear quite indifferent to the good opinion of the sovereign in whose kingdom they dwell there are other persons favourites at court, who would lie awake at night tossed to and fro in fear if they thought that something had been reported to the sovereign’s ear that was disloyal. A man who fears not God, will break all his laws with an easy conscience, but one who is the favorite of heaven, who has been indulged to sit at royal banquets, who knows the eternal love of God to him, cannot bear that there should be any evil way in him that might grieve the Spirit and bring dishonor to the name of Christ.”

“A very little sin, as the world calls it, is a very great sin to a truly awakened Christian. I will ask you now, dear hearers, do you know what it is to fret because you have spoken an unadvised word? Do you know what it is to smite upon your breast, because you were angry?–justly provoked, perhaps, but still, being angry, you spoke unadvisedly. Have you ever gone to a sleepless couch, because in business you have let fall a word, or have done an action which, upon mature deliberation, you could not justify? Does the tear never come from your eye because you are not like your Lord, and have failed where you hoped to succeed? I would give little for your godliness, if you know nothing of this. Repentance is as much a mark of a Christian as faith itself. Do not think we have done with repenting when we come to Christ and receive the remission of our sins by the blood that did once atone. No; we shall repent as long as we sin, and as long as we need the precious blood for cleansing. While there is sin, or a proneness to any kind of sin, lurking in us, the grace of God will make us loathe the sin and humble ourselves before the Most High on account of it.” Source: Self- Humbling and Self-Searching

I have heard many theories on salvation and the relation between works and grace to the point that I really don’t know what I believe anymore. Based on some of the views a few of you hold, how does one interpret Spurgeon’s quote here?

Do not think we have done with repenting when we come to Christ and receive the remission of our sins by the blood that did once atone. No; we shall repent as long as we sin, and as long as we need the precious blood for cleansing. While there is sin, or a proneness to any kind of sin, lurking in us, the grace of God will make us loathe the sin and humble ourselves before the Most High on account of it

Either one’s sins past present and future are forgiven for all time or there is a process involved here for one who claims to be a Christian. There is a personal choice here for someone to come to Christ and confess because we continually ‘need the precious blood for cleansing’.

So if we do NOT come for ‘cleansing’, does that not mean that individual sins can count against us? Does not this support thoughts contained in James 2 and Romans 6:14-23? Is there not a continual abiding and obedience involved here?

Comments?

Hey Guibox,

I think we talked about this once before on November 29 in this thread.

Spurgeon’s quote does not imply that Jesus’ atonement for our past, present and future sins was not accomplished at the cross, nor does it mean we have a new atonement with his blood for each sin we confess.  We know that once we repent of our sin and put our faith in Jesus, we have the full assurance of salvation in Christ.  Ephesians 1:13-14 says, “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession–to the praise of his glory.” (Ephesians 1:13-14 NIV)

Sinners who have been saved by the blood of Christ have a guaranteed inheritance, but they do not live a life that pushes the boundaries of God’s grace, rather, they live lives of humble, yet imperfect, obedience to Him.  Our prayers do not accomplish a new atonement for each sin, but they are an acknowledgement of falling short of the righteousness that we hunger for as sinners who have been justified.  Confessing our sin is admitting we are not perfect and that we depend on Christ’s perfect sanctifying imputed righteousness to continually work in our lives.

I’m including below the explanation of 1 John 1:7-10 given by John MacArthur in his commentary.  I posted this and a commentary by John Piper back on November 29 at the link I posted above.

Continual confession of sin is an indication of genuine salvation. While the false teachers would not admit their sin, the genuine Christian admitted and forsook it (Ps. 32:3-5; Prov. 28:13). The term confess means to say the same thing about sin as God does; to acknowledge His perspective about sin. While verse 7 is from God’s perspective, verse 9 is from the Christian’s perspective. Confession of sin characterizes genuine Christians, and God continually cleanses those who are confessing (cf. v. 7). Rather than focusing on confession for every single sin as necessary, John has especially in mind here a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness (Eph. 4:32; Col. 2:13).

I hope this helps to understand Spurgeon’s quote, but please let me know if you have any further thoughts or questions.

Greg

It still is a bit confusing in my mind. To me, I see the above comments as redundancies if I believe in OSAS.

“Acknowleding we depend on Christ’s perfect sanctifying imputed righteousness to continually work in our lives”

and

“God continually cleanses those who are confessing”

imply an effort to be holy as we are called to be. If the Bible calls us to be holy and perfect, then ‘confessing sin’ and needing righteousness to ‘continually work in our lives’ means that we aren’t good enough to be saved yet. If

1) It is not our own righteousness but Christ’s that saves us

2) We already are saved then with no effort of our own and not of our own righteousness,

3) If nothing we can do can save us or undo us because our ‘righteousness is as filthy rags’ and only when we put on Christ are we justified

then Christ’s imputed rihteousness needs no ‘confession’ or ‘cleansing’.  No matter how much we repent, we are still sinful and are nothing on our own merits. We can never be good enough. Whether we confess or not Christ’s imputation cannot be undone.

Guibox,

What did you think of the text I quoted from Ephesians 1:13-14?  Do you see it as reassuring or do you have a hard time believing it?

Or how about this one: “Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.” (1 John 5:12-14 ESV)

Responding to your last point, I would suggest that few who are truly saved will abandon confession of sins merely because of the assurance of eternal life, rather, salvation brings complete humility, leading the Christian to despair of his unrighteousness and confess his sin more fully.  This is the point of Spurgeon’s quote above.  Being a truly saved Christian causes one to be more acutely aware of sin and creates more longing in the heart to become like Christ.

Essentially what we are talking about here is the difference between justification and sanctification.  Justification is the work of God at the point of repentence and faith, while sanctification is the work of God that follows justification.  Some refer to this as “now, not yet,” meaning that we are “now” justified, but “not yet” fully sanctified or glorified.  This will create a continual tension in the Christian life, as the apostle Paul himself describes in Romans 7:13-25.

Greg

I must say that your two passages are quite telling. I just see much more to it in other passages for it to be so pat, however. Like a good Adventist, I will find a way around it.

Being a truly saved Christian causes one to be more acutely aware of sin and creates more longing in the heart to become like Christ

But we cannot become more like Christ on our own efforts. Why do we need to do the ‘work’ of confessing to try and get to that point, when our sinful nature or standing does not effect our salvation due to the imputed righteousness of Christ?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to see how sinful I can be and get inside, I am just trying to reconcile the fact that salvation seems to be a growth and process of changing as opposed to a one time thing that seals it for ever regardless.

I guess I see that even though there are no conditions to us receiving the grace of Christ, there seems to be some to remain under that grace. Your last comment makes me ask ‘What is sanctification for?’ We cannot change our nature until glorification. It seems that sanctification is part and parcel of the salvation process and is just a formality as far as being saved goes. So what happens if we aren’t ‘sanctified’ enough? Does glorifcation make up the difference as far as our nature goes?

Guibox, how about dropping the Adventist view of things and allow the Bible to speak to you without reservations?

I am not being flippant–it’s important to take the words as they read and feel their weight without compromise.

Regarding your last point about needing to “remain” under grace, all I can say is that he who began a good work in you is faithful to complete it (Philippians 1:6).  Now THAT’S a wonderful promise!

Greg

Here is another article by Charles Spurgeon that explains the great truths of the Reformation faith of Calvin and Luther. This is one of Spurgeon’s most famous sermons defending Calvinism against some unjust attacks:

http://www.spurgeon.org/calvinis.htm

Here is a quotation from the above article that is applicable to the topic of assurance of salvation:

IT IS A GREAT THING to begin the Christian life by believing good solid doctrine. Some people have received twenty different “gospels” in as many years; how many more they will accept before they get to their journey’s end, it would be difficult to predict. I thank God that He early taught me the gospel, and I have been so perfectly satisfied with it, that I do not want to know any other. Constant change of creed is sure loss. If a tree has to be taken up two or three times a year, you will not need to build a very large loft in which to store the apples. When people are always shifting their doctrinal principles, they are not likely to bring forth much fruit to the glory of God. It is good for young believers to begin with a firm hold upon those great fundamental doctrines which the Lord has taught in His Word. Why, if I believed what some preach about the temporary, trumpery salvation which only lasts for a time, I would scarcely be at all grateful for it; but when I know that those whom God saves He saves with an everlasting salvation, when I know that He gives to them an everlasting righteousness, when I know that He settles them on an everlasting foundation of everlasting love, and that He will bring them to His everlasting kingdom, oh, then I do wonder, and I am astonished that such a blessing as this should ever have been given to me!

“Pause, my soul! adore, and wonder!
Ask, ‘Oh, why such love to me?’
Grace hath put me in the number
Of the Saviour’s family:
Hallelujah!
Thanks, eternal thanks, to Thee!”
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There is something that is soul stirring about that kind of preaching by Spurgeon.

Stan

Spurgeon certainly has a way with words, known as the “Prince of Preachers.” Thanks for posting that quote, Stan.

Further down in that soul-stirring sermon, Spurgeon addresses some of the concerns Guibox has raised tonight:

“It is often said that the doctrines we believe have a tendency to lead us to sin. I have heard it asserted most positively, that those high doctrines which we love, and which we find in the Scriptures, are licentious ones. I do not know who will have the hardihood to make that assertion, when they consider that the holiest of men have been believers in them. I ask the man who dares to say that Calvinism is a licentious religion, what he thinks of the character of Augustine, or Calvin, or Whitefield, who in successive ages were the great exponents of the system of grace; or what will he say of the Puritans, whose works are full of them?”

And later:

”There is nothing like a belief in my eternal perseverance, and the immutability of my Father’s affection, which can keep me near to Him from a motive of simple gratitude. Nothing makes a man so virtuous as belief of the truth. A lying doctrine will soon beget a lying practice. A man cannot have an erroneous belief without by-and-by having an erroneous life. I believe the one thing naturally begets the other. Of all men, those have the most disinterested piety, the sublimest reverence, the most ardent devotion, who believe that they are saved by grace, without works, through faith, and that not of themselves, it is the gift of God. Christians should take heed, and see that it always is so, lest by any means Christ should be crucified afresh, and put to an open shame.”

This is unbelievably well-said.

Greg

Greg,

this quote from Spurgeon once again:

There is nothing like a belief in my eternal perseverance, and the immutability of my Father’s affection, which can keep me near to Him from a motive of simple gratitude. Nothing makes a man so virtuous as belief of the truth. A lying doctrine will soon beget a lying practice. A man cannot have an erroneous belief without by-and-by having an erroneous life. I believe the one thing naturally begets the other. Of all men, those have the most disinterested piety, the sublimest reverence, the most ardent devotion, who believe that they are saved by grace, without works, through faith, and that not of themselves, it is the gift of God. Christians should take heed, and see that it always is so, lest by any means Christ should be crucified afresh, and put to an open shame.”
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How can contemplating that statement above, and truly believing it make any of us careless with regard to our Christian living?

Stan

That Spurgeon quote is worth repeating, because it says so well what those who believe in God’s sovereignty believe about living sanctified lives.

When we understand the depth of our depravity, being spiritually dead in our trespasses and children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1-3), we cannot help but be changed by what Jesus did for us in his death and resurrection, making us alive together with him and seating us in the heavenly places (Ephesians 2:4-7).  Having saved us by grace through faith, we lead holy lives of service in gratitude for what he has done, doing the works he has prepared for us to do (Ephesians 2:8-9).

I could live the rest of my life on these few verses alone.

Greg

Spurgeon:

“It is often said that the doctrines we believe have a tendency to lead us to sin. I have heard it asserted most positively, that those high doctrines which we love, and which we find in the Scriptures, are licentious ones. I do not know who will have the hardihood to make that assertion, when they consider that the holiest of men have been believers in them. I ask the man who dares to say that Calvinism is a licentious religion, what he thinks of the character of Augustine, or Calvin, or Whitefield, who in successive ages were the great exponents of the system of grace; or what will he say of the Puritans, whose works are full of them?”

Not sure what Spurgeon is getting at here. He seems to be vouching for the character of Calvin and Augustine and lauding the civilization of the Puritans.

Calvin may have been an excellent theologian, but his administration of Geneva, and his apparent disregard for the liberty of conscience make him a little suspect in my book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin

Ditto for Augustine. He believed heretics should be burned at the stake.

And the Puritans were no charmers either. They left one country in part to flee from religious persecution only to carry on the same sort of abuses once they reached the new land. They had very strict “sabbath” regulations for Sunday. And of course there was the infamous witch-hunt.

Am I misunderstanding something here. What was Spurgeon’s point?

Hey Glenn,

You raise some good points that I hope Stan will address later.  I don’t believe Spurgeon, Augustine, or the Puritans were perfect, but I do understand your objection based on Spurgeon’s quote.

What I believe is remarkable about Spurgeon, especially, was his ability to eloquently capture profound theological truths in an uncompromising way that could be understood by people without theological training.  His earnestness for preaching the “power of God unto salvation” was unparalleled for his time and to this day he is known as “the prince of preachers.”

Here are two more great quotes I found from Spurgeon this morning:

“I do not believe that any man has regularly sat under the sound of a gospel ministry for three months without being either sensibly hardened or manifestly softened by it.”

“I am sure it is God’s gospel; for nobody could have invented it–a plan so just to God, so safe to man; and I am all the more sure it is God’s gospel because there are many that hate it.”

Greg

Glenn,

I will be the first to acknowledge that Augustine and Calvin were not perfect. But if we consider the context of their times, they were Reformers and innovators. Augustine lived at a time when pagan influences ran rampamt, and he adopted pagan views in some of his theology.

John Calvin’s Geneva has been debated. He did a lot of good things, but he also wasn’t perfect. Calvin’s detractors take the most distorted view of things.

But just read John Calvin’s basic beliefs in a modern translation. He wrote the most God-honoring of material.

Charles Spurgeon was loved even by H.M.S. Richards Sr.

But if you go to the http://www.spurgeon.org web site you will find a treasure trove of the best sermons there are.

But I don’t agree on every point of doctrine, but we can be uplifted by reading these great sermons.

Stan