I originally posted this on FAF almost two years ago, and would like to call attention to this book again, which had quite an influence in my thinking regarding Adventism:

I would like to call everyone’s attention to a book that has been a tremendous blessing to me. This book re-affirms the total Sovereignty of God in election. It also confirms that the Holy Spirit leads into all truth. It is also a strong confirmation that the SDA church is not evangelical. As my time permits, I would like to post excerpts from this book on this thread and then get your comments. This book really belongs on one of those web sites that post books online. This book is out of print but can be purchased for 2.95 at the following link:

http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Chagall, David

The authors are David and Juneau Chagall, and the book was published by Thomas Nelson copyrighted 1988.

Politics fans like myself remember David for his political commentary with George Putnam and Ray Briem, long time fixtures in L.A. talk radio. He is famous for a book called “The New Kingmakers”, about how political candidates come to power. He was raised as an orthodox Jew.

Briefly, the book is about their journey through different phases of the New Age movement, finally ending up with Roy Masters, and how that involvement led to a vivid occultic experience accompanied by lights, and the face of Roy Masters staring at him thru this light. This frightened him enough, that they left Roy Masters, and mysteriously they were drawn to the study of the Bible--especially the O.T., where they got back to their Jewish roots, and started keeping the Sabbath like good Jews.

Then he talks about his addiction to marijuana, and how he prayed desperately to kick this habit. There was a still small voice that told him to try Jesus, and he, a Jew, was terrified at that thought. The Lord delivered him from this habit, and he became a Christian, and independently, his wife also came to know Christ.

The next step down this Sunshine Road led them to a Sabbath keeping church, (After all, they were Jewish still, and they were supposed to keep the Sabbath), and led to an SDA church associated with George Vandeman. They were attending that church for 18 months, when the question of Baptism came up. Their impression after diligently studying the Bible, was that they could be baptized if they believed in Jesus as their savior. But, they were told, you have to believe the 20 some odd fundamentals before you can be baptized. They also read a lot of EGW books during that time, and came to the conclusion that she was a false prophet, and they felt the strong conviction of the Holy Spirit, that this was just another stop along that long Sunshine Road over the past 24 years of going from one movement to another in New Age and false teachings.

They wrote letters to everyone, and got out of the SDA church, and then joined a Bible believing fellowship called Agoura Christian Fellowship, and then they knew for sure that they had finally come to the end of this long search for truth, and found their true Sabbath rest in Jesus. Anyway, as time permits, I would like to post excerpts from the book detailing their interaction with the SDA church. I think you will find this fascinating.

Now,I’ll try to get to a few interesting excerpts. The cover of the book says, “In their search for New Age answers, they chased their dreams across the seas, only to find the truth in Christ at the end of...The Sunshine Road.”

The forward: “Our thanks to the Spirit of Truth, and Ed Richter, who never knew it would take 24 years for us to find out what Romans 8:28 is really all about.”

The book details their search thru many kinds of New Age experiences leading up to getting deeply involved with Roy Masters. I’m sure many of you have heard this smooth talking guy on the radio. He has a hypnotic effect on people, and is very controlling and manipulative. David tells the story of an occultic experience at the height of his involvement with Masters, the night before he was supposed to go on a radio program with him. Here is the description: “Suddenly, I saw a light flash into the darkness and a blue-white brilliance loomed closer and closer until at last it dominated my vision. There was a face inside the great glow, a face not unlike Roy Masters.’ Instinctively, I knew this was the Light, coming to claim me at my moment of truth. There was no time to think of what to do--I reacted instantly. Covering my eyes with my arms, I shouted “No!”, as my being decided the matter. The Light vanished, and I sat up in bed trembling. It took me two hours to get back to sleep, troubled that maybe I’d decided my fate for all eternity.”

They left the Roy Masters movement, and then contemplated their next step: “Spiritually, Juneau and I entered a new, surprising phase. Drawn like magnets to the Bible, we spent our free time studying the Word or reading aloud to each other and discussing what we didn’t understand...The more we got into the Bible, the more convinced we were of its truth...Though attracted to the portrait of Jesus, we regarded Him as an exalted teacher and prophet but certainly not the Son of God.” “After reading the 10 commandments one Friday night, I decided we should observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy.”

In the Spring of ‘84 while the political primaries were heating up, David was convicted that he was addicted to marijuana. He had given up regular cigarettes in the past by just praying to God, and he assumed that this time would be just as easy, but not so. He became more frustrated that his prayers were not being heard. “Instead, a still small voice spoke to my mind’s ear..."Ask Jesus,” He said. I couldn’t believe it! Ask Jesus? I could never do that....I was a Jew...Shaking off His suggestion, i lit a joint and escaped into grass” This cycle kept repeating itself. “I clasped my hands and prayed: “Jesus, if You are who Scripture says You are, please heal me of this marijuana curse. I ask this with a sincere heart. I ask this in truth and will serve the truth if You do this.” The desire for marijuana was taken away. “Two full days went by...The Holy Spirit,...convicted my heart. I could no longer deny Him who had saved me. So I got down on my spiritual knees, thanked Him for who He was and what He’d done for me, then gave my life over to him...I passed from death into life (John 5:24)… He who has the Son has life(1John 5:11,12)...My heart rejoiced in a new way and sang a new song to His glory and praise. All guilt had vanished...”

“At the same time the Holy Spirit was working on Juneau’s heart, and she came to Christ thru reading a description of the death of Christ by Hal Lindsay. Here is her words: “The day after I accepted Christ as my Savior, I was amazed to find I now knew every word in the Bible was absolutely true. But I did not tell David. Not knowing that David was already a true Christian....That very week, we confessed to each other that we were true Christians, born of the Spirit, confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Oh, the miracle of the holy Spirit, who worked on us in different ways to the same blessed end!” (To be continued)

Stan

Shortly after their conversion experience, they thought it would be right to attend a church that kept the Sabbath. So they were led to an SDA church. “As new Christians, we hungered for spiritual information but though they were sweet and gentle-spirited, our new church friends never seemed willing to talk about God or His Word. That was when George Vandeman...who attended our Thousand Oaks church--over a potluck lunch confided that they were praying the Holy Spirit to bring us in as members. It was hinted that I might join their media ministry as a writer. Vandeman urged us to attend an evening “Seminar for the End Times” that looked into the Bible and what Adventists believe, so we signed up...a typical session began with a video tape of Vandeman discussing Satan, rebellion, the mark of the beast, and other subjects. The presentation was slick...Vandeman used the jump-around method of Bible texting. He had us code the special Bibles distributed the first night, and we’d go from a verse in proverbs, coding it SR for Satan’s Rebellion, to another in Mark or Revelation where we’d dutifully ink in similar SR’s, without having the faintest idea of background or reason behind the analysis.

The tape was followed by a 40 minute teaching session run by the pastor, Howard Welklin, and an architect named Ralph Arnold....Every time Juneau or I posed questions or challenged an interpretation, Welklin put us off."You’re jumping the gun a bit"..."Let’s go into that some other time”. Needless to say, the “right time” never arrived, and we had lots of unanswered questions...."Soon we got into the “gift of prophecy” and learned that SDAs believe...EGW fulfilled Rev 12:17 and 19:10 concerning the remnant church of the last days. Since that didn’t jibe with what we understood about Christian doctrine, we bought a set of White’s books to find out what she-and therefore this church-teaches.

We found many of White’s ideas troublesome...that Sunday keepers had the mark of the beast..etc. “There were lots more rules about health, jewelry, wine, and food in White’s books, prohibitions that make a total mockery of salvation through God’s grace alone”. They then joined associate pastor’s Ole Oleson Bible class, and he also ducked their questions. David was being convicted that they should become baptized, and he told Ole he wanted to be baptized. Ole replied, “Wonderful...But I need to know what you understand of baptism?” David replied, “It’s a public acknowledgment that we’ve accepted Jesus as lord and Savior… Ole answered, “All right, but that’s not all of it..I’ll check with Howard and get back to you...” They got back to them and basically said “baptism by Adventists means joining the Adventist church and accepting all the church’s tenets” “He gave us a card with 20 points of Adventist faith...Many of them were troublesome--especially Sabbath and EGW”.

David raised the question of Baptism with Juneau, and she protested, “But we have to join their church!” David answered, “So we join..We don’t have to go along with all their rules.” She replied. “Yes we do. Yes we do!...I don’t want to spend my life feeling guilty. You don’t understand, David, they’re another cult. They have all these rules and regulations that cancel out the whole blessing of God’s Grace!” “Suddenly, Juneau began sobbing uncontrollably. Her reaction was so intense I was frightened and tried to console her...."It took us a long time to get to sleep after the emotional upheaval, but after that our spirits were calmed.

Soon afterward I wrote a lengthy letter to the pastor explaining how our studies had led us to withdraw our request for baptism in their church. Pointing out doctrines we saw as heretical, we felt their church was tring to earn salvation through rules...though we were grateful for the 18 months of fellowship..we sent copies of this letter to all those adventists we’d come to know and love.” They stopped going to church for a time, and continued to ask for God’s guidance as they studied the Bible on their own.

They were drawn to Agoura Christian Fellowship, and took a Bible class which was taught by television producer Michael Warren of “Happy Days.” “We found the class--as well as our classmates--absolutely charming, full of love and good humor. Most gratifying, though was the teaching. Warren worked strictly from the text, and welcomed questions, challenges, and opinions from his students...We found an uncompromising pastor, Dave Gudgel, preaching the true Word of God, equally open to inquiry and ready to give an answer to every question...We asked Pastor Dave to baptize us, and though we were not yet members, he joyfully agreed.

On Good Friday 1986, Juneau and I declared before man and God that Jesus Christ is our Lord, our God who died so we might live, and who rose from the grave to prove His dominion over life and death. Two months later, we became members. Today Juneau and I sing in the choir, I serve on the deacon board...More important, we know Christ, live from Him, and trust Him for our lives and happiness.”

“How can we be sure our faith in Christ is not just another false turning on the Sunshine Road? Or that biblical truth is not just one more cultic belief? It’s been 4 years now since we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior. In every spiritual trip we’ve ever taken, the process was identical. We’d start out full of high hopes and enthusiasm and go downhill from there. Soon the disenchantment would set in...."Living through Jesus Christ, exactly the reverse is true....Our faith grows stronger with each passing day.."Our hearts are more filled with joy, our testing of Scripture only proves all the more that it is God’s revealed Truth for all mankind. That’s why Juneau and I had to tell our story of the Sunshine Road. If we didn’t speak up, the rocks and trees would have shouted--for it is God’s will that all his children return to His fold now, at this very special moment in history.”
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Stan

Several things intrigue me about the story of the Chagalls.

It is clear that they were thoroughly converted to Christianity. It is very interesting that because they were former Jews, they thought they needed to keep the Sabbath. They were convicted of this. However, the Holy Spirit was promised by Jesus to lead us into all truth.

For traditional Adventists who believe that God raised up the SDA church to be the remnant church of Bible prophecy, and that Ellen White was God’s last day prophet, then, I would have to ask, “Why did God clearly lead these folks out of Adventism? I think it is highly significant that this couple who had been through many different cults, also ended up recognizing the same spirit in the George Vandeman branch of Adventism. Before Vandeman’s death, I did watch him a lot on TV, and there was something about his message that just didn’t ring true. I know Jess Dixon who posts here occasionally has a lot of interesting experiences to tell about Vandeman. I think it was Jess who said that Vandeman physically either kicked him or hit him at one evangelistic series. So Jess, if you are reading this, maybe you can comment.

I am intrigued by the fact that a medical colleague of mine came to Christ by reading the Desire of Ages, but when she studied Adventism, she never became one.

These experiential and anecdotal stories of people I know to be genuine Christians, not being led by the Holy Spirit to stay in SDA, would seem to cast a lot of doubts on the fact that God wants all people to eventually come to faith in Adventism. Yet, in the SDA church I grew up in, we were taught that the great commission was to preach the gospel of Adventism, so as many people as possible would come to the truth.

Why is 90% of the missionary effort of SDAs, even in foreign missions directed at other Protestant denominations?

This paragraph from the above story is quite interesting and somewhat troubling:

“David raised the question of Baptism with Juneau, and she protested, “But we have to join their church!” David answered, “So we join..We don’t have to go along with all their rules.” She replied. “Yes we do. Yes we do!...I don’t want to spend my life feeling guilty. You don’t understand, David, they’re another cult. They have all these rules and regulations that cancel out the whole blessing of God’s Grace!” “Suddenly, Juneau began sobbing uncontrollably. Her reaction was so intense I was frightened and tried to console her...."It took us a long time to get to sleep after the emotional upheaval, but after that our spirits were calmed.”
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This paragraph would raise the question that some other former SDAs have raised. Is there a spirit of Adventism that is quite cultic, and that former SDAs who have been in Adventist fundamentalism need to pray about to get rid of this spirit?

I would suggest as Robert Brinsmead did, that there is a spirit of fundamentalism whether it be Adventist or Pentecostal, or Baptist, that does enslave folks into legalistic bondage and slavery. What do you think?

Stan

Speaking of the spirit of fundamentalism, here is an interesting posting by John Hendryx of http://www.monergism.com regarding the difference between fundamentalism and Reformed theology:

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/FundyReform.html

Quoting from Hendryx:

Fundamentalism Vs. Reformed Theology

“In general, most modern fundamentalists take the Bible at face-value within their own socio-political context, and they usually subscribe to a form of premillennialism. However, since the term fundamentalist is often a vilification when used by outsiders, some fundamentalists now call themselves evangelicals.”

“Fundamentalists are often those who are reclusive and estranged from the religious establishment, which they sometimes perceive as needing an overhaul or even replacement. The first time that any group of Christians proclaimed themselves to be fundamentalists was in a meeting that took place in the early 1900s in the United States. At the time there was not the clear association of fundamentalists with militant or religious fanatics (an association people might often ascribe to them today). The gathering was merely a response, in the Church, to the huge infusion of modernism and the liberalizing trends of German biblical criticism. This tendency of modernism and unbelief in the Church gave rise to a group resistance, among religious conservatives of various stripes, to the loss of influence traditional revivalism experienced in America during the early years of the twentieth century. At this time, the “Fundamentalists” were Calvinists united together with Dispensationalists and other conservative Christians to do battle with this dramatic theologically liberal turn from historic Christian orthodoxy. They distributed a series of pamphlets, free of charge, among pastors and seminarians (published between 1910 and 1915) entitled “The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth”.

“These were a set of basic truths to which all the conservatives were united in agreement and still are to this day. The following is what came out of the meeting and what Reformed Theology and Modern Fundamentalism still hold in common:

Fundamentalism and its Similarities with Reformed Theology

1) The inspiration and verbal inerrancy of Scripture
2) The Deity of Christ and the virgin Birth
3) The substitutionary atonement
4) Justification by faith
5) The physical resurrection
6) The bodily return of Christ at the end of the age.
7) Christ performed miracles

But over time the original reasons for uniting began to fall apart and the differences between the Reformed and other camps began to show. The following are significant differences that we can see today between modern Fundamentalists and those with a Reformed heritage:

Fundamentalism (and its Differences with Reformed Theology)

1) The absence of historical perspective;
2) Ignores the Scriptures highly diverse literary genres;
3) The lack of appreciation of scholarship; aversion toward any secondary theological training; anti-intellectual;
4) The substitution of brief, skeletal, superficial creeds for the historic confessions;
5) The lack of concern with precise formulation of Christian doctrine; highly averse to theology;
6) Pietistic, perfectionist tendencies, often moralistic (i.e., major upon “issues” such as protesting Harry Potter movies; separating with Christians who are not KJV only);Guilt-Centered (Fundamentalism) Vs. Gospel Centered (Reformed) Sanctification
7) One-sided other-worldliness - reclusive: church separate from the culture - the holy huddle (i.e., a lack of effort to impact their communities & transform culture);
8 ) A penchant for futuristic chiliasm (or: dispensational pre-millennialism);
9) They embrace some form of Manicheanism (or Greek dualism);
10) Often demonize their opposition and are reactionary;
11) Envy modernist cultural/political hegemony and try to overturn the powers that be through political brute force rather than persuasion; Thus are often viewed by outsiders more like a political lobby than representatives of Christ;
12) Arminian tendency in theology (synergistic)
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When I look at the characteristics above of how fundamentalists differ from Reformed theology, I can’t help but think of my historical SDA tradition, and what the Chagalls described in their book. The spirit of Adventism and the spirit of fundamentalism are very similar. The results of living in a fundamentalist culture are very harmful. Whenever external rules and regulations that are man-made are set up as standards by which one must live, then the results on lives affected by this mentality can be devastating.

Stan

Stan,

I could not agree with you more !  As much as my present mind-set and position is totally positive and rejoicing in the “freedom for which (Christ) has set me free” (Gal 5:1),
this being my primary focus and that which occupies my mind continuously with great rejoicing and daily praising God for Jesus, the glorious gospel, and His precious WORD, still I cannot devorce my self from, nor eradicate all the tentacles of regret and scars of emotional, psychological and spiritual damage done over the period of most of my life striving to earn God’s love and approval by abiding by the strict rules of life style dominated by all their “should’s” and “ought to’s” and “should not’s.” Virtually every normal human behavior was classified as sinful in my home.

I recall one dramatic incident in my childhood when I was around the age of nine.  My mother had left me in the care of my Aunt who had fried bacon, leaving the skillet on the stove still containing some of the crunchy bits broken off during the frying process.  The smell was so inticing.  I finally reached into the fry pan and took a couple of the crunchy bits left and savored the delicious flavor in my mouth.

No sooner did I do so, than I was overcome by such a load of guilt and fear, equal in my experience to Adams attempt to hide from God.  I was in a horrible misery, that before my returning mother had stopped her car, I flew out of the kitchen door whailing and screaming in sobs of anguish as I ran toward my mother.  My Aunt, hearing my cries, came running outside, thinking I had hurt myself terribly and yelling, “What’s wrong?” I flew to my mother and buried my face against her sobbing, “I’m going to hell.  I’m going to die!  I have sinned against God!”

So deep within my childhood psyche was the conviction of the sin of eating a tiny crust of bacon, that I feard I had sealed my eternal doom and was going to hell.

My wife and I, attempting to live according to Ellen White’s directives and strict pronouncements concerning the intimacy of husband and wife in their own bedroom, experienced great marital stress; being convinced by the “prophetess” that most of the natural sexual desires we both felt as a young married couple were sinful, that it took many years to overcome the psychological damage such teaching had had upon us, impacting us in such a painful way.

I remember thinking I had broken the Sabbath when the vacuum was not put away and the closet door closed before the exact moment of sundown Friday night. 

It is those whose temperament is sincere and ultra conscienteous which are so often damaged the most. 

A quote from Robert Brinsmead I recall the most often in this context is that which he said typifies the attitude of the church when it came to upholding those “church standards”:  “To hell with people.  We MUST uphold the truth!” It is identical, in some degree anyway, to the attitude and convictions of the Jews toward Paul in Corinth when their complaint was “This man persuades men to worship God contrary to the law.” Acts 18:13 (my emphasis)

I honestly can not recall what my belief was in those days over such texts as Col 2:16,17 “Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day ~ things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ!”

To quote M.L. King, “Free at last!  Free at last!  Thank God I’m free at last!”

Soli Deo Gloria for total liberty in Christ Jesus.

Jess

Jess, thanks for sharing your insights.  Speaking as someone who is a few years younger than you and was raised in a more cultural SDA environment, it helps me to see the ways in which Ellen White’s writings have been used in the lives of others.

I think there is a tendency for many from my generation to dismiss Ellen White as almost irrelevant or as somewhat of a historical curiosity.  But as you reminded us, spiritual abuse results in very real emotional scars.  Thanks for sharing openly with us and for reminding us what happens when the historic teachings of Adventism and Ellen White are taken to their logical ends.

One of the most sadly ironic features of this “historically pure” form of Adventism is the attempt to bind up every aspect of human behavior with a “blue law”.  Unfortunately, in addition to creating new laws not found in the Scripture, God’s law is not used “lawfully” to bring people to Christ (1 Timothy 1:8-9, Galatians 3:23-26).  Under this way of thinking, laws are seen as a way to cause good behavior but not so much to point out the need for a Savior, setting up a futile cycle of repeated attempts at obedience followed by dismal depression-laden failures.  I rejoice with you that the Lord has mercifully broken this cycle in your life, and I pray that others who are still caught up in this will taste of God’s forgiveness and grace.

Also, I hadn’t thought about the connection with Acts 18:13 before–thanks for sharing it.

Stan, thanks for posting those lists describing the difference between Reformed and fundamentalist views.  I want to explore those differences more in the near future.  Also, that story of David and Juneau Chagall you posted earlier was fascinating and a reminder that God is indeed sovereign and Jesus’ sheep hear his voice, no matter what messed up situations they find themselves in (John 10:27).

Greg

Thanks Jess for your thoughts.

You have a great way with the use of words.

I think it was you who said that you had an interesting encounter with George Vandeman during an evangelistic series. I only brought this up, because of the experience of the Chagalls in the book ‘Sunshine Road’.

Always great to hear from you Jess, and I hope you are feeling better. Headed out of town now, so talk to you soon.

Stan

The story of David and Juneau Chagall in “The Sunshine Road” found me identifying with them at various junctions of their journey.  My personal relationship or friendship (as I assumed it to be at the time) with George Vandeman spanned a time when I first became acquainted with him when he first moved to Glendale, California to set up an office at the Voice of Prophecy (VOP).  That was around 1953-’54.  He was my hero.  Not having known my father, who was killed ten days before I was born, I tended to look to spiritual leaders/preachers as mentor and father figures and attach affection to them which proved to be one-sided. During Academy I also met his two sons as classmates.

Years later when I was a minister in the New Jersey Conference Vandeman was called to conduct some public meetings and he asked me to be his song leader / singer and I then found myself on a more equal footing along side this popular icon and Television “star.” His reference to himself was “the window dressing for the denomination.”
It was during one of these meetings in a large rented hall, I can’t recall the city now.  It may have been Perth Amboy or Rahway, NJ the attendance proved to be pitifully small.  His disappointment was obvious and his tension showed on his face, along with an acute impatience with those in charge of the hall and all associated with this series of meetings, which ended in being closed.  A total failure.  This was the only time I ever had a series of public meetings cancelled due to lack of interest and attendance.
It was during one of the last meetings that I had occasion to observe another side to Elder Vandeman that his television audience would never have dreamed possible.

I want to comment further on the subject of “church standards” and it’s “code of conduct” based largely upon the counsels found under the authorship of Ellen G.  White,
and the deadly sins of pride and judging of others such “should’s” and “ought to’s” and the list of things not to do leads do enevitably.  I see it as one of the most pronounced cancers destroying true spirituality among those who profess the name of Christ but whose lives deny the power thereof and show by “their” manufactured “fruits” of focusing upon behavior, that they are not truly united with Christ.

The discomfort in the healing process from my recent surgery prevents me from writing more at this time.  But I see these other teachings as “another gospel” promoted upon Paul declared “let them be accursed!” Gal 1:8,9.

JessD

Posted anonymously by: phen

The point raised by former SDAs concerning the spirit of Adventism being cultic is quite true.No doubt about it, this spirit of fundamentalism is devastating. But let’s not stop there and be soft on the mixed up SDA/fundamentalism.
To be thoroughly honest, we have to go the extra mile and without being mean, conclude that there is a false spirit, by a false prophet working in Adventism, bearing bad fruit.
There are too many stories concerning the behavior of SDA ministers telling people about doing outward things to get God’s favour and to show that Adventism in the truth;going to church on the right day, eating the right foods,wearing the right attire, no jewellery- this is singing in the minor key.These cannot cleanse the conscience.
In hebrews 9 the first covenant is said to consist of all these outward forms, or “carnal ordinances.”
When we sing in the major key, we realize that with “Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands,"..."his blood” purges the conscience from “dead works” of Adventism, so we can “serve the living God” freely.
People are finally realizing how little SDA preachers really know about the bible. Some have barely read the bible through, because of the million plus words that Ellen White wrote (or copied/stole) through which they have to wade, while in Seminary. They come out with a theology degree which is based on SDA doctrines and that is what they preach. (e.g internet blogs of thirtysomething SDA ministers) Biblical exegesis is foreign to the SDA brain, because of conditioning.
One must discard preconceived ideas when entering into a study of God’s word, then it becomes clear, as it speaks to the soul. Remembering that the word is Jesus Christ himself John.1, who is God, creator, life, light which shines in dark places,we receive the true Jesus of the bible and he gives us power to become sons of God.
One has to cast down every stronghold which is in the form of a set of false beliefs, built up by a false prophet that prophesy lies in Gods’ name; who he did not send.
God always, without exception, sent prophets by two or three so they corroborated each other, since that was Gods’ way of doing things. Through the bible there is evidence. When Ellen made her declarations, we can only search to see who the other ‘prophets’ were in her day. If we say that they were false, where does that leave Ellen? No other ‘prophet’ to corroborate what she said, she is out there on her own and that’s not how God works because it’s always, “in the mouth of two or three witnesses.”
Now SDAs sit and wait for the next sole ‘prophet’ that will replace Ellen,seeing there are no recognized prophets as far as the SDA church is concerned- again.

Jess, I thanks again for sharing your experiences with us.  I agree that the sins of pride and judgment are malignancies which erode the heart of true Christianity.  Belonging to a church that fosters a spirit of judgmentalism toward other churches soon leads to judging others within the church.  Robert Brinsmead wrote about a “spirit of sectarianism” that exalts the denomination/church above the Savior–a spirit that is rampant in Adventism and many other “isms”.

The gospel knows no denominational boundaries and imposes no requirements other than a simple faith in Jesus Christ.  Tampering with this gospel is akin to “improving” a Rembrandt with crayons and spray paint.  The result is a mess bearing no resemblance to the original–a treasure turned into garbage.

Greg

phen, you make a lot of good points.  I’ve seen the same phenomenon you described on some of the “thirtysomething SDA minister blogs”.

If Adventists heeded the New Testament counsel regarding the handling of prophecies, they would not be in nearly the bind they find themselves today.  1 Thessalonians 5:20-21 and 1 Corinthians 14:29-33 come to mind.  But Ellen White called herself “more than a prophet,” placing herself above the role of a New Testament prophet.  A higher office invites a higher level of scrutiny that is evidently not taught at the seminary, unless the object of scrutiny is another church’s “prophet”.

Greg

Greg, you write: (I’ll have to learn how to mark quotations off correctly.)
Robert Brinsmead wrote about a “spirit of sectarianism” that exalts the denomination/church above the Savior–a spirit that is rampant in Adventism and many other “isms”.

I admit to struggling in an attempt to prioritize the areas of disagreement I now have with the practices and teachings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.  But I intuitively feel that the farther away from it ~ in years ~ I find myself, the clearer my focus on some issues.  One which consistently stands out as evoking some of my stroggest passionate feelings is that of the SECTARIAN spirit. 

The “truth” in Christ now, in my experience, stands out in bold relief, in crystaline light and such clarity, I often must stop in reading these passages to lift my hands heavenward in worship and praise, so grateful for this clear revelation.  I marvel that through most of my life, especially as a preacher, that the veil was draped over the pure simple truth which now seems to be in sharp focus.

I refer to texts such as Eph 2 actually from verse 11 to the end of the chapter; but verses 13,14 & 16, while referring specifically to the wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile, one cannot help but see the double application in todays setting where the “remnant” concept creates such dramatic barriers between Adventists and other Christian believers.  All who were once outside Christ have now, through faith, been brought near “by the blood of Christ.”
“He Himself becomes our peace, has broken down in his own flesh this dividing wall of hostility (and let no one deny there are not occasions when icy cold hostility couched in words of self-righteous judgment are not evidenced within not a few SDAs, especially traditionally-minded members.)

The Word of God is SO VERY CLEAR here.  How can one deny the meaning of the words that in Himself Christ reconciled both to God in “one body through the cross.” One body!  v.18 “For through him we BOTH (all true believers) have access in one Spirit to the Father.”

One conviction that has grown deeper in my consciousness and which I held for a number of years during my pastoral experience, which troubled me not a little, is that the ONE PRIMARY MESSAGE of the Seventth-day Adventist Church today, (that which they identify and describe as being “the message,” “the truth,” “the gospel of Rev 14:6-12,” and “the Advent truth,") that which IS the single most prominent message in all their public meetings as well as in home Bible studies is:

THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH, THE CHURCH !

It is NOT Jesus Christ and His Gospel, THE one message Christ Himself preached (Mk 1:14,15).  The evidence is overwhelming, seen in actual practice and proclamation, that THAT which is the most urgent of all needs, is to get other Christians and non-Christians, to become Seventh-day Adventists and to begin seventh-day Sabbath keeping!  No one can be baptized,with full church authority and approval by the Church Board, who testifies to their belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and Lord; without full indoctrination into the 28 official fundamental beliefs and acknowledged pledge to embrace those teachings and to practice them.  According to divine Scripture, these are accepted by the FATHER, but not qualified to be accepted into membership within the SDA Church!  How incredulous is that !

For such beliefs and sectarian practices, there is no Biblical authority whatsoever!  Grinding Jesus’ own words in Jn 14:6 beneath it’s feet the SDA Church drowns out the Gospel truth with their shouts, “The Church, the Church, the Church, we MUST uphold THE CHURCH!” The Church IMPERIAL not the meekness of the Savior is that which is promoted and uplifted before the dying world.  It saddens my spirit to say such things, yet I believe them to be true.

Jess

JessD,

Let me add my voice to those welcoming you to the website. I’m a current and lifelong, but theologically non-traditional SDA, who’s found this website to be a collegial and informative discussion place where differences are respected.

You mentioned you were in ministry in NJ. I wonder if our paths ever crossed as I grew up there and went through the SDA school system there, went to campmeetings at Garden State Academy (now closed), etc.

Anyway, I can relate to your childhood experiences with things like bacon.  I remember one episode where I had obtained some coca-cola and tried to fib my way out of what I was drinking when my dad asked me what was in my cup.

I think you’re right that officially and in context of its evangelistic campaigns the SDA church unfortunately exhibits a sectarian spirit that can be not only divisive but also narrow-minded for SDA believers themselves, in terms of how we understand Christianity and basic Christian doctrines.

For the first generation of SDA’s, when knowledge of basic Christian ideas was probably more widespread and assumed, this might not have been as severe a problem, at least where the education of members is concerned. But for third and fourth generation SDA’s like ourselves, who’ve grown up with an emphasis on SDA fundamentals, some basic Christian concepts have been lost or at least greatly under-utilized. In my experience this is changing in the church, at least at the local level, somewhat. This is of course of great concern to the more historic corners of the church.

And it’s true that the SDA church has at times taken on the character of the church it most widely despises--the Roman Catholic church in promoting a churcheology rather than a Christ-centered theology.

Glenn and Jess, you both make excellent points.  I’ve been very humbled and gratified to realize that the Christian church extends beyond the boundaries of a building or a denomination, including all those who “name the name of Christ” by putting their faith in Him.

Jess, your point about people being accepted by the Father but not accepted by the SDA church is profound.  I think Adventists are loosening their standards somewhat, especially on the West Coast, but the Sabbath and the prophetic writings of Ellen White are still what ties them together.  In fact, I think a very real concern on the part of many “evangelical” or “liberal” Adventists is that the Adventist church will disappear if these “distinctives” are not upheld.  In contrast to the historic Adventists who seek to hold on to the doctrinal purity of Adventism, this new generation of Adventists seeks to hold on to the culture of Adventism without regard for what the church actually teaches.  They embrace the lifestyle of Adventism but reject its central tenets, in some cases even rejecting Christ.

Leaving sectarianism behind and embracing Christ was an eye-opening experience for me, because I was no longer part of a group identified by a peculiar set of doctrines, rather, I was identified by the Person in whom I had placed my faith.  Having all of those peculiar beliefs about diet, days of worship and behavior dramatically hampered my ability to be a Christian witness, because on some deep level I knew that I did not want to saddle anyone else with my cultural religion.  Imagine my surprise to find that the apostles had the same problem!  When some members of the Jerusalem council suggested that Gentiles should observe the Mosaic law, Peter, who had previously been chastised by the apostle Paul for imposing Jewish laws on the Gentiles (Galatians 2:11-14), said this:  “Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.” (Acts 15:10-11 ESV)

What would the Adventist church look like if they believed, as the apostles did, that everyone who places their faith in Jesus will be saved just like them?  Some of those distinctive teachings and prophecies would probably begin to lose their luster and fellowship with other Christians would suddenly have value beyond just trying to convert them to Adventism.

The thing that haunts me though, is that there are surely many Adventists who are not even saved themselves, yet they faithfully cling to their rigid belief system because they are sure it will take them to the promised land.

Only Jesus Christ–nothing else–can stand on our behalf on the day of judgment.  Not Sabbath-keeping, Ellen White’s prophecies, tithe paid, or Linkettes eaten.  In this regard, it is highly significant that the same apostle who had kind words for the adulterous Corinthians could show righteous anger toward the Galatians who tampered with the gospel, even pronouncing anathema on anyone who would add their unique teachings to it (Galatians 1:8-9).

Greg

Here’s a quote out of Brinsmead’s book “Judged by the Gospel” that resonates with what we’re saying here.  It may be important to note that Brinsmead drew a distinction between traditional Adventists and Adventists who embrace the gospel.

[quote author="Robert Brinsmead"]
Traditional Adventism thinks of its denomination not merely as “a church” but as “the church.” It makes claims for its denomination that no Protestant church has ever made or ever could make.

Traditional Adventism claims that this denomination is the only true church.  All other churches are “Babylon.” Therefore, the Adventist denomination is the only legitimate visible church in all the world.  Such claims have only been made by cults–and of course, Rome is the greatest cult of all.

Traditional Adventism identifies its denomination with the biblical remnant.  The main proof texts for this claim are Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 19:10.  It is therefore said that the remnant must keep all ten commandments and have a prophet.  Given these criteria, Adventism alone qualifies as “the remnant church.”

The remnant, however, first appears as an Old Testament concept.  The remnant is the line of the faithful.  In salvation history this line narrows until it becomes one Person.  Jesus Christ alone qualifies as the faithful Servant of Yahweh.  He is the Branch, the Elect, the Righteous One and the Remnant.  He is also the Church–for He is its Head, and as Calvin pointed out, a body cannot be known by looking at its feet.  It is only as sinners are incorporated into Christ by saving faith that they are included in the Branch, the Elect, the Righteous, the Church or the Remnant.  It is manifestly absurd to suggest that one could be “in Christ” and not among the elect, the righteous or the remnant. ...

Traditional Adventism claims that its denomination is “the last church.” It is confident that no other organization could ever take its places as the only true church.  It opposes the idea of “unconditional election” for individuals but seems to believe in an “unconditional election” for its denomination.

It is ve