When I was growing up learning Bible stories, I learned of how Moses spent 40 days and nights with God on Mount Sinai, and that after he came down his face was radiant with God’s glory.  It was so radiant that he had to wear a veil.  The people couldn’t stand to see it.

That was how I learned it growing up.  I couldn’t quite remember the lessons which were drawn from the story—perhaps a simple “Wow, Moses was close to God!” Or a kind of reinforcement of how we should reverence the Law.  Something like that.

So it was with a bit of shock that many years later a friend pointed out what Scripture actually says—that Moses wore the veil to hide something…

So he [Moses] was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments [Heb: The Ten Words].

When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God. Aaron and all the people of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. But Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation returned to him, and Moses talked with them. Afterward all the people of Israel came near, and he commanded them all that the Lord had spoken with him in Mount Sinai. And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.

Whenever Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he would remove the veil, until he came out. And when he came out and told the people of Israel what he was commanded, the people of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face was shining. And Moses would put the veil over his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

Exodus 34:28-35

Reading it casually, it is like I was raised to understand it.  But then looking at it closer, the understanding I was raised with falls a little short:

When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God. Aaron and all the people of Israel saw Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. But Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation returned to him, and Moses talked with them.

Notice that Moses had not yet put a veil over his face at this point.  Aaron and Israel’s leaders were looking straight at his radiant face.

Afterward all the people of Israel came near, and he commanded them all that the Lord had spoken with him in Mount Sinai. And when Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.

All of Israel looked on Moses’ radiant face as he spoke to them.  And it was <strong>after</strong> he finished speaking that he put a veil over his face!

Why did he do this?  Was it for common courtesy?  “Put out that light!” “Shine that thing somewhere else, man!” The next part of the passage ‘illuminates’ the reason further:

Whenever Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he would remove the veil, until he came out. And when he came out and told the people of Israel what he was commanded, the people of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face was shining. And Moses would put the veil over his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

1) Moses removed the veil when he spoke to the Lord.
2) When he came out--veil still off--he spoke to the people.
3) At that time, they saw his face was radiant.
4) After they saw his radiant face, he put the veil back on.

If he had donned the veil for the courtesy of the Israelites’ eyes, there would be no need to wait—he could put the veil on as soon as he came out of the tent.  Instead it seems that Moses used the veil because he wanted to show Israel that his face was radiant.

Maybe it sounds too sinister?  Maybe I’m reaching?  I would have thought so, too, until my friend pointed out what Paul wrote—and I saw it for the first time, even though I had read it many, many times before:

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end [Gk: fading away], will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory?  For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.  Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it.  For if what was being brought to an end [fading away] came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end [fading away]. But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.  Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:7-18

Paul said that Moses put the veil on in order to hide the fading of the glory, the fading of the radiance!

I was a bit shocked when I first really saw this!  How could Moses do such a thing?  Isn’t it a bit dishonest?  Was he afraid of what they would think if they saw that the glory was fading?  I couldn’t help but think of many ministers today who see great revival and try to keep “it” going after the Spirit has departed.

However, God clearly remained with Moses for the rest of his life, and kept His hand on Moses, still using him until his death.  And after his death, reclaimed his body from the grave.  The last time we see Moses is on the mount of transfiguration, when Moses’ wish to see God’s face is finally granted—he gets to see the glory of the Son.

So God allowed Moses to do this, to hide the fading of the glory, the fading of the radiance.  It doesn’t mean that God endorsed it, because Paul makes a lesson of it. God sovereignly allowed it to teach us something.

Why do you think Moses did it?  What does it mean?  And how do you feel about it?  How does it make you feel about Moses?  We usually look at him as a pretty faultless, upstanding guy.  Yet here we see Scripture (Exodus & 2 Cor.) twice stating that he deliberately veiled his face to keep the Israelites from seeing the fading of the radiance.

I’m curious how others feel about this.  I will wait to share what it has come to mean to me.  Please write your thoughts first. 

Blessings in Christ,
Ramone

P.S. I’m not so interested in hearing quotes from theologians, Adventist scholars, Reformed scholars, etc.  So I’d like to just stick with Scripture and us for now.  My reasons for saying this are:

1) It can get really complicated once we start quoting this person or that.

2) We often lean too hard on others’ interpretations when the Holy Spirit in us is supposed to be our first teacher.

3) Shoot, I want to hear what you think, not what they think.  As much as I can be blessed by the Spirit speaking through theologians, I believe that the Spirit also lives in each one of us.  He’s given each one a portion of Himself, and I’m more interested in the portion of Him in you instead of in them whom I cannot talk with. 

4) It’s just more fun talking with each other instead of ultimately one-way conversations with theologians.

5) It’s just more fun using Scripture alone.  It’s so much fun I feel like I could fly!  Or dance.  Or sing!  It’s too much fun.  Take my word for it, haha.

Note: If you’d like to discuss these reasons, please open up another thread.  I’d like to keep this thread free to talk about “Moses’ Secret.” Thanks.

Ramone,

This is very interesting. I’ll have to give it some more thought. But thanks for highlighting these passages. 

Moses was a mediator between God and man.

This is an illustration that the people would be consumed if Moses didn’t keep a veil or act as a veil to protect sinful people from being destroyed by His holiness.

No amount of holiness can come from keeping the law. With God’s Holy Law as a standard, we would all be consumed without our mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ, who paid the penalty for our sins on Calvary, but He ever lives to make intercession for us to keep on cleansing us from all unrighteousness.

Thanks for the interesting points, Ramone.

Stan

When a person turns to the Lord he finds in Him the end or fulfillment of the law (Rom 10:4).  The Lord Jesus completely removes the veil from his heart.  No longer is his spiritual perception impaired (Cp.2 Cor 4:14) He recognizes that grace has superceded law.  He is a “new creation” in Christ (2 Cor 5:17). 

Not only does the Spirit of the Lord remove the veil; he also sets a person free from bondage to sin, to death, and to the law as a means of acquiring righteousness.  The glory
for New Covenant believers is not displayed outwardly on their faces, but experience in progressive growth in Christian maturity or sanctification until believers receive their glorious body like unto the risen Christ (Phil 3:21.

Jess

Ramone, thanks for starting this thread and for raising a great question.  Here’s my answer:

Just as the glory on Moses’ face faded after being in the presence of God, the covenant between God and the Israelites was passing away, surpassed by the Person to whom it pointed (Hebrews 8:6).  Like Moses, Paul beheld the glory of Christ on the Damascus Road (Acts 9), but the glory of this encounter did not fade.  By faithfully preaching the gospel he received directly from Christ (Galatians 1:12), Paul reflected and shared this glory with the saints down through the ages.  May we continue to proclaim it with boldness, sharing our hope in Christ with others (2 Corinthians 3:12) and being transformed by His glory (2 Corinthians 3:18).

Greg

I think it goes back to when God spoke to the children of Israel in Exodus 19 and 20 and they were afraid when they “saw the thunderings and lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.And they said to Moses, speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak to us lest we die.”

From that time, the glory of God was to them a consuming fire because of the decision they made to have a go between. They could no longer behold the glory,so Moses covered his face “until” he was done speaking to them. I think the times he spoke to them without the vail,he did not realize that his face shone and they were “afraid to come to him.” I don’t think there was anything sinister with what Moses did with the vail. The people knew that when Moses went in to talk to God his face would shine from the glory after that time. Of course it could not last forever, as long as Moses was away from the presence of God.

This is still the problem with people today. People prefer to have a priest or pastor instruct them, even in reading the bible.  Instead of reading the bible,coming humbly before Jesus and having him pour his spirit into us, we were trained in churches to think that only the theology majors with six degrees behind their names can understand the bible, since it is too hard for the rest to understand. We need to sit at Jesus’ feet and let him reset the way we were wired, by creating new pathways in our thinking.

In 2 Corinthians 3: 7-18, it is still amazing that some still push to “keep” the ministration of death, which the text clearly says would be done away. We are like the children of Israel, who could not steadfastly look on Moses’ face or on the glory of God, or on that which is abolished. The same vail is “untaken away in the reading of the old testament: which vail is done away in Christ.” There is no liberty, because we remain slaves to the old ministration of condemnation.

Come on Ramone, do you mean that I can’t even “suckle” at my “favorite authors’ theological breasts” by posting all those extensive quotes I like to post? Oops! Sorry, I thought this was FAF. (two smiley faces, and a wink)I know I’m in trouble now!!!

P.S I like your enthusiasm for the bible and the bible alone.

Hi everyone & thanks for your replies!

Stan & Phen - I’m wondering what you thought of what Paul said, that Moses put on the veil in order to hide the fading glory.

The understanding I grew up with was that Moses put the veil on for their sake, but reading Exodus closer reveals that Moses left the veil off when he spoke to Israel after coming out of the Tent of Meeting.  Then after he had finished speaking to Israel, he put the veil on, during the “off” time, we might say.  Basically when he had to stand up and give a speech, the veil was left off.

Reading Paul, the reason for the veil is spelled out—Moses put it on <strong>to hide</strong> the fading radiance/glory.

The glory & radiance was fading away.  If Moses had not worn the veil, people would notice that the glory was getting dimmer and dimmer.  But if he only showed them his face after he came out from the Tent, then it would look freshly bright each time.  They wouldn’t be able to constantly behold the fading of the radiance.  The veil served to keep them from constantly beholding the radiance, so they could never clearly compare his face’s brightness this time with last time.

Paul’s commentary basically says that Moses knew the radiance was fading away, and that he put on the veil to keep the Israelites from seeing that it was fading.

Question then for everyone—How do you feel about what Moses did?  And how do you feel about Moses?

Blessings in Jesus Christ,
Ramone

Ramone, I’m a little tired tonight and I’m not sure I have much of value to say on this topic right now.  Maybe others can respond...I’ll check back in tomorrow.

Ramone, I’d like to hear more of your insights on 2 Corinthians 3 when you have the time.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Not sure how much insight I have to offer!  I’m honestly curious about how others feel about Moses after discovering why he wore the veil.  It really was a bit of a shock to me that made me a bit uncomfortable… it made me ask God, “Why?”

There are many lessons in 2 Corinthians 3, but I’m not wanting to jump ahead to them… the shock of Moses’ secret is easy to miss by running ahead to extracting lessons.  I kind of want to stick to that for now and see what comes out of it among us.

The other night as I was showering and half-talking to God, I think I began to understand a bit more… maybe.  But I’m still beginning to get a hold on it and process it.  And I want to hear what others think as they understand what Moses did and ask God about it, too.

Blessings and freedom in Jesus,
Ramone

John 3:16
Ramone,
I learned this as you did also.  Moses put on the veil so the CoI did not see his face while it shone.  Now I am finding out differently.  I will have to search this out for my self now. 
It used to be I believed the teacher/preacher because they were the experts.  God has given me progress as I now search things out for myself.
Thank you God.  You are awesome.
Diana

Wow, Diana, you basically summed up everything in a sentence, thank you!

We were taught:

<strong>"Moses put on the veil so the children of Israel could not see his face while it shone."</strong>

But now we see Scripture says:

<strong>"Moses put on the veil so the children of Israel could not see his face while it faded."</strong>

I haven’t gone into many of the implications of this, but one of the immediate effects is to damage a big part of the “wow” that I grew up with or was taught: 

When we first hear about Moses’ shining face, we’re like, “Wow!” We stand in awe of how close he was to God, and how “God” kind of rubbed-off on his face, so to speak.  In the same way, Israel looked and beheld Moses’ shining face, “Wow! See how close he is to God!  His face is too bright for us to see!”

But now our “veil” is removed—or maybe rather, Moses’ veil is removed, and we see that the glory on his face is fading.  How does this make us feel now about how we used to feel?  What do we think of our former “wow-ing” at Moses’ bright face?  And how do we feel about the veil?  And about Moses?

This is getting deep!
Blessings in Jesus,
Ramone

John 3:16
Let me see if I can put things down in a coherent manner for you.  I have to be at church at 9:45 for a leadership training class.
The way I see this is that Moses wanted the Children of Israel to see God’s radiance and remember it, so he covered his face as it started fading.  The CoI so easily forgot God, so anything Moses could do to help them remember Him, Moses did. 
I did not realize until I re read the texts in Exodus and 2 Cor that the veil over the minds is equated with the veil over Moses face.  As long as people believe the 10 C
they have a veil over their minds.  They do not see the fading away of the 10C and the broader picture of God’s love(radiance) encompassed in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.  Only when a person stops emphasizing the 10 C and accepts Jesus sacrifice and believes in Him and loves Him, is that veil removed.
That is how I see and understand this.
Diana

Diana, that’s pretty deep.  Thank you!

Any other reactions about Moses’ secret?

Posted anonymously by: Ane

Wow, Ramone thank you for sharing this amazing discovery. I’m blown away yet again!

I don’t see this as deceptive at all. We are assuming the israelites didn’t understand the symbolism of this veil. I’m guessing they probably did.

I remember when I left the SDA church 4 years ago. I was invited to join a neighborhood Bible study. My first encounter of fellowshipping outside of Adventism.

I remember having the audacity at the time of saying to one of the ladies in the study that I thought Moses was a leader whose ego went to his head and he just willy nilly made up all these non-sensical rules simply because he could.

I vividly remember the perplexed look this lady gave me, and her response. She so gently said to me, “Oh, if you ever take the time to study the OT, you will discover almost every little detail in their is a mini-picture of the plan of redemption.”

At the time I had no idea what exactly she had just tried to communicate to me ... because truly in my 14+ years of church school, none of the symbolism of the OT was really ever explained to me. I knew what the sacrifices symbolized, but that was pretty much the extent of it.

As I have grown spiritually over the last 4 years I’m understanding more and more daily exactly what that lady meant.

I’ll bet the Israelites understood exactly what this veil foreshadowed. I really question if Moses did it just for the Israelites benefit. I see it as a ritual done for OUR benefit. How many of us have struggled with the discovery of the Old/New Covenants and the fact that the 10 Commandments would disappear? I kept having to go back to my Bible over and over again, because I couldn’t believe all the references in there in regards to the 10 disappearing. It left me shell shocked for years. I had the hardest time reconciling that.

I don’t think it was deceptive of Moses at all. I think it was very intentional for our benefit, so that when the Apostle Paul came along all those years later and made the comments that he did in 2 Cor. we could see exactly how Moses personally acted out this shadow for our benefit, so that we COULD believe Paul and take him at his word.

I’m beginning to realize nothing, no minute detail of the OT rituals, ceremonies and stories were ever accidental. Every aspect of that testament was SO intentional and pointed to Christ and His fulfillment of those shadows.

I think Israel understood that Old Covenant was only ever made with them, not their ancestors, and I’ll bet they understood in more detail than we, all the aspects of those shadows. I’ll be they understood the Old Covenant would one day disappear. Those shadows were how they participated in the plan of redemption. We participate in a much different way.

God forgive my ignorance for not understanding and reverencing these shadows and for blasting Moses the way I did.

Ane

Thanks everyone for your comments.

It’s been almost three months since I wrote this, and I was hoping for more commentary, but I think everyone’s pretty busy and know that there are difficult things going on, as well as time-occupying things (such as ones in little diapers who make dinosaur noises recently).

I wrote down some notes on this and I think they’re stuffed away in a shelf somewhere, so I’ll need to dig them out to give the thoughts that came to me out of this.

Today, however, I wrote something to someone else on the passage and realized that I have been giving Moses the benefit of the doubt in this incident.  I wrote:

“Paul ... says he has renounced secret & shameful ways & deception, implying that Moses used such ways when he covered his face to hide the fading of the glory of the Ten Commandments [the Old Covenant].”

I realized that when I put together this topic, I did not consult Chapter 4!  Specifically, 2 Corinthians 4:1-2.  Paul makes his commentary on what he thinks of what Moses did in these verses.  It’s part of a whole commentary on those “ways” which begins in 2 Corinthians 2:17.

So I find myself a little shocked now because I didn’t realize that Paul gave his opinion of what Moses did:

“secret”,
“shameful”,
“deception”,
perhaps “distortion”
and “not setting forth the truth plainly”. 

Or in the words of the ESV:

“For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ…

“...Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word…

(And instead, by contrast...)

“...but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.”

Paul has sandwiched Moses’ hiding of his secret between these words as an example of practicing insincerity, underhanded, cunning and disgraceful ways.

What do you all think now? 

(I need to find my notes, I think.)

Blessings in Jesus,
Ramone