Here is an interesting quote from some who were familiar with Ellen’s views on the black race:

B.F. Snook and W.H. Brinkerhoff said of the Whites:

“They Teach Doctrines Contrary To The Bible, Absurd, Inconsistent and Contradictory.–These visions teach that the Negro race is not human. This charge they deny, but we will let the reader decide for himself. Here is what she says; ‘Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species, and in certain races of men.’–Sp. Gifts. Vol. 3, p. 75. But what are we to understand by certain races of men? She has not informed us in her writings, but left us to fix the stigma of amalgamation where we may see fit. But the interpretation has come to light. She told it to her husband, and he made it known to Eld. Ingraham, and he divulged the secret to the writer, that Sister White had seen that God never made the Darkey. Paul says, ‘And hath made of one bleed all nations of men, for to dwell on all the face of the earth.’–Acts 17:26. Which shall we believe, Paul or E. G. White? I beg leave to believe the Apostle. I must believe that the colored man is a creature of God. If he is not, why preach to him and try to save him. Oh shame on such visions! Is not the poor Negro debased low enough with chains and shackles, without depriving him of the honor of being a creature of God, a human being?” The Visions of E. G. White Not of God. 1866. Pamphlet. p. 9
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Stan

And here is the Ariel Buchner source where Ellen may have gotten her statements:

“By this logic of facts we see, then, who these sons of God were, and who these daughters of men were; and that the crime they were committing, could not be, or ever will be, propitiated; for God neither could or would forgive it, as we shall see. He determined to destroy them, and with them the world, by a flood, and for the crime of amalgamation or miscegenation of the white race with that of the black?merebeasts of the earth. We can now form an opinion of the awful nature of the crime, in the eyes of God, when we know that he destroyed the world by a flood, on account of its perpetration. But it is probable that we should not, in this our day, have been so long in the dark in regard to the sin, the particular sin, that brought the flood upon the earth …” p. 27.

“our translators believing it impossible that brute beast could corrupt themselves with mankind, and then, not thinking, or regarding, that the negro was the very beast referred to. p. 28.
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Stan

Later, Ellen White took Mormon prophet Joseph Smith’s view with regard to Noah’s curse with regard to Ham or Canaan:

“A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”

Here is the basic problem of Ellen White’s views as articulated by Colin Kidd:

“the very foundation of the cardinal doctrine of Christianity?the atonement through Christ. It is on the assumption that all men are descended from the first Adam, and involved in his guilt, that the atonement proceeds, and the offer addressed to sinners of the blessings procured by the second Adam … The denial of this doctrine, then, involves more than the rejection of so-called Hebrew myths. It is practically a rejection of Christianity, and, in a personal point of view, raises doubts which on this theory are from their nature incapable of solution. For, if there be any tribe not descended from Adam, how can any individual assure himself or those around him of this connection, and so of any title to participate in the blessings of the gospel?” Colin Kidd p.127.
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Stan

Posted anonymously by: T Joe Willey

Greetings

I’m on the historical trail to identify Ellen White’s source for her first health message book entitled “Appeals to Mothers” that deals with solitary vice.  It is likely that she copied or drew inspiration from Mary Gove.  In 1839 Mary Gove (a remarkable women on almost every account) published a short work entitled “Solitary Vice: An Address to Parents and Those Who Have the Care of Children.” This eighteen page pamphlet or small booklet was printed in Portland, Maine. Mrs. White could likely have known about this earlier work.

Gove’s book claimed many of the same counter points as Ellen White.  She included generalized weakness, headaches, dyspepsia, epilepsy, insomnia, inability to concentrate, poor vision, diabetes, diseases of the spine, insanity and death to those who indulged.

But the key to attaching the relationship between the two health reformers (Gove and White) is that Gove earlier described how she learned of this unfashionable degradation.  She begins by telling her readers that she knew nothing of this crippling vice until sufferers mothers gave their testimonials to her about their dark secret.  If anyone here can help my research I’d appreciate learning what you know.  Mrs. White begins in a very similiar way.

Brand and McMahon do not include statements from Appeals to Mothers in their scientific research while trying to find the supernatural in the health writings of Mrs. White.  Had they done so it would have pulled the coefficient of inspiration down below the chance level.

Mrs. White was also shown a voyeuristic vision that the brethren leaving the most solemn discourses about the judgment and returning to their rooms engaged in “their favorite, bewitching, sin, polluting their own bodies.” So the hot breath of inspiration not only came down hard on blacks but the brethren on occasion felt it too. (see Numbers, Ron.  Sex, Science and Salvation.  In “Right Living:  An Anglo-American Tradtion of Self-Help Medicine and Hygiene.  Johns Hopkins University Press.  2003.

Cheers

tjoe willey

I neglected to welcome both Everlearning and Dr. Willey to the forum. Welcome!

Dr. Willey, thanks for the research you have shared with us. Stan forwarded the PDF you prepared from the slides of your recent Adventist Forum meeting and I understand you have given permission for us to post this here so we can all take a look at it.

For those who are interested, the PDF may be downloaded from this link.

What troubles me about all of this is the willful disregard of Mrs. White’s statements on the part of many Adventists and the brazen apologetic efforts of the White Estate. The White Estate holds all the cards in that they have access to all of Mrs. White’s writings, yet they continue to propagate stories to rationalize her conclusions that blacks (and others) are not really human and therefore not worth evangelizing. These beliefs of Mrs. White, coming at the very beginning of her ministry, strike at the heart of her credibility as a prophetess of God. Instead of glossing over this like it’s not a big deal, I’d like to see the White Estate and the Adventist administrative heirarchy denounce these statements along the lines of how the American government has denounced slavery and other abuses of African-Americans. I won’t be holding my breath for this, however.

Greg

[quote author="T Joe Willey"]Greetings

I’m on the historical trail to identify Ellen White’s source for her first health message book entitled “Appeals to Mothers” that deals with solitary vice.  It is likely that she copied or drew inspiration from Mary Gove.  In 1839 Mary Gove (a remarkable women on almost every account) published a short work entitled “Solitary Vice: An Address to Parents and Those Who Have the Care of Children.” This eighteen page pamphlet or small booklet was printed in Portland, Maine. Mrs. White could likely have known about this earlier work.

Gove’s book claimed many of the same counter points as Ellen White.  She included generalized weakness, headaches, dyspepsia, epilepsy, insomnia, inability to concentrate, poor vision, diabetes, diseases of the spine, insanity and death to those who indulged.

But the key to attaching the relationship between the two health reformers (Gove and White) is that Gove earlier described how she learned of this unfashionable degradation.  She begins by telling her readers that she knew nothing of this crippling vice until sufferers mothers gave their testimonials to her about their dark secret.  If anyone here can help my research I’d appreciate learning what you know.  Mrs. White begins in a very similiar way.

Brand and McMahon do not include statements from Appeals to Mothers in their scientific research while trying to find the supernatural in the health writings of Mrs. White.  Had they done so it would have pulled the coefficient of inspiration down below the chance level.

Mrs. White was also shown a voyeuristic vision that the brethren leaving the most solemn discourses about the judgment and returning to their rooms engaged in “their favorite, bewitching, sin, polluting their own bodies.” So the hot breath of inspiration not only came down hard on blacks but the brethren on occasion felt it too. (see Numbers, Ron.  Sex, Science and Salvation.  In “Right Living:  An Anglo-American Tradtion of Self-Help Medicine and Hygiene.  Johns Hopkins University Press.  2003.

Cheers

tjoe willey

Dr. Willey, we look forward to your research on this, and maybe this will be the subject of your next AAF presentation. I do know of someone who would like to help you with your research, and I will contact him, and he can contact you.

Stan

The biggest problem I have with the ministry of Ellen White, is the fact that her writings cause nothing but confusion among Adventists.

She may have served some purpose in early Adveentism, as even Kenneth Samples (who wrote the forward to Ratzlaff’s book “Cultic Doctrine) will acknowledge that she contributed to moving Adventism further away from Arianism.

I am also not the judge of whether she was a Christian or not. I certainly cannot be confident of her salvation, and I cannot say that she was unsaved either. I will leave this to God.

However, I can judge whether she prophesied falsely on many occasions, and that seems to meet the criteria to call her a false prophet, at least according to the criteria in Deuteronomy 18. My late friend Walter Martin had a slightly different take on this.

But the weight of the evidence in my opinion, and based on my long experience in Adventism, as well as my extensive experience in posting on SDA and former SDA websites:

I must conclude that Ellen White was a false prophet. She did not speak for God in any sense of the word. Even though “Desire of Ages” has been instrumental in bringing many to saving knowledge of Christ, based on recent research, it is questionable whether Ellen even wrote this book.

I know for sure that she wrote “Early Writings” and she claimed these visions were directly from God. But any honest evaluation of this book will reveal blatant heresies being promoted. In fact, when I read “Early Writings”, it is a very “freaky” experience. I get this very uncomfotable feeling in my spirit. Dare I say, even an oppressive spirit comes over me when I read that book.

When progressive SDAs want to argue that Ellen White matured from “Early Writings”, then it must be answered ‘what do you make of statements where she says these visions were directly from the throne of God.?’

But the most troublesome aspect of Ellen White in modern times, is the spiritual hold that she commands on Aventists. Southern California SDAs may claim to have relegated her to the museums, but she still has a major headlock and grip on much of Adventism.

Ellen White is worshipped like a “god”, and “Whitolatry” is just as prevalent as “Maryolatry” in Roman Catholicism.

But despite all the problems Ellen White has caused, it is by the grace of God, that there are many true Christians within the SDA church, just as this is true among Catholics. This is true despite the false theological systems that make up both Adventism and Catholicism.

Stan

Welcome, Dr. Willey.

Here is Kevin Paulson’s explanation of the “amalgamation” statements:

One more point, of course, deserves absolute clarification in this context. Nowhere, in any statement whatsoever, do the writings of Ellen White identify any particular race of humans as the product of amalgamation with animals, nor is there the slightest hint in those writings that because of such origins, certain races should be treated as subhuman. Bradford’s implication that because it was commonly held in Ellen White’s day that such races as the African Bushmen were a mixture of animal and human genes, that Ellen White probably held this view also (p. 65), is completely groundless. Whatever races of humanity might contain such elements, on the basis of the statement in question, was either not revealed to Ellen White by the Lord, or was deliberately left unsaid through divinely imparted wisdom. To reveal such a fact would have only created confusion–much like the pre-flood amalgamation itself (64)–very likely conveying the notion that different races were therefore deserving of different treatment. For anyone to even remotely imply Ellen White’s support of such a concept is to fly in the face of her uniformly-consistent declarations that all races of men stand equal before God, equally entitled to the blessings of the gospel and to just treatment by the laws of society.

In the discussion on amalgamation, Bradford cites the Spectrum article below on how the church had earlier approached these statements. I thought some of you might find it interesting.

The article indicates that, as I think someone has already alluded to, Uriah Smith suggested the possible races EGW might have meant and that James White apparently gave his blessing to Uriah Smith’s booklet defense of his wife’s writings and authority generally (although whether James specifically confirmed Smith’s explanation of her use of amalgamation is not so clear--but it might be reasonably assumed if James was favorable to Smith’s booklet).

http://www.spectrummagazine.org/spectrum/archive11-15/12-4shigley.pdf

Glenn,

Thanks for posting the Spectrum article. On page 11 it is made clear that those clsoest to Ellen White would totally contradict the “head in the sand” apologetics of Kevin Paulson. Ellen White’s son WC White, and her secretary both said Ellen meant what she said.

Stan

Posted anonymously by: Den

Interesting topic, so what do the apologists for her original statements have to say about Uriah Smith’s comment and James White’s endorsement?
As a black person this would have upset me say a few years ago but having removed EGW from my own personal Adventist pedestal I have come to terms with her and some of her strange comments. I do not see her as a prophet but a messenger who like any human messenger got some of messages mixed up with her own personal opinions or influences of her day. Like some Adventists we assume that what we personally like or believe is what God also likes or believe.... dangerous way to think.

Den Wrote:

“I do not see her as a prophet but a messenger who like any human messenger got some of messages mixed up with her own personal opinions or influences of her day. Like some Adventists we assume that what we personally like or believe is what God also likes or believe.... dangerous way to think.”
----------------------------------------------------

Welcome Den to 4TG!

I agree with your statement about being dangerous to think this way.

Do you still read Ellen White, or does she serve a useful purpose for you? Is time reading her writings time well spent?

This question is open to other current SDAs as well.

Stan

Den, a warm welcome to you. When I was confronted with Ellen White’s problems, I could not find a way to extract her from my SDA beliefs without other uniquely Adventist teachings dissolving as well. For example, without Ellen White’s prophetic stamp on the 1844 error, the Adventist church would arguably have no reason to exist. Like Stan, I am interested in understanding what role Ellen White plays for you today. In any event, I welcome you in Christ and I hope you’ll share more with us.

By the way, I totally agree with you about the danger of forcing God into our personal “likes” and “dislikes”. This is essentially creating a god in our own image, which is the biblical definition of idolatry.

Greg

Posted anonymously by: Den

Thanks for the welcome brothers. I have EGW books at home and I’ve read some. To me she is a good Christian writer and commentator but I do not treat her like the Adventist manifesto which is how she was treated when I was growing up in the church 1970’s/1980’s. I suspect we have come a long way from her intentions. EGW’s writing was/is treated like the Ace in the pack, so many times when an issue is being discussed the ‘EGW says this’ is used as if to end all debate. That sickens me, I don’t hear it that often only now and again mainly by older Adventists who joined in our legalistic phase in the 1950’s and 1960’s.
The church did itself a great disservice with that phase. They must have hated the 1960’s when society adopted a learn to think for yourself attitude and the ‘our leaders must know better than us’ attitude started to die - lol.

Hi Ken,

I’m going to hijack this thread to respond to ‘The church did itself a great disservice with that phase.’, which implies that the SDA Church has shifted its position regarding EGW as the authoritative source for it’s members.

The following shows that the ‘phase’ never ended and that the emphasis on EGW is stronger than ever.

It’s sad that ‘Connecting With Jesus’ is all about EGW!!

What happened to the Bible?

‘Connecting With Jesus’

http://www.connectingwithjesus.org/

An Ellen White Global Book Distribution Project
Connecting with Jesus is a worldwide project sponsored by the General Conference and the Ellen G. White Estate. It is a Spirit of Prophecy distribution plan to place two million sets of 10 Spirit of Prophecy books, at appropriate prices, into the hands of church members around the world in printed and electronic form. These books will have study guides for each book. These study guides prepared by seminary students at Andrews University are ready for distribution and translation into various languages. The rapid expansion of the Seventh-day Adventist Church demands that our members, young and old, know what Spirit of Prophecy counsel God has for His last-day church as we head into the final conflict.
The Spirit of Prophecy has been instrumental in establishing so many of God’s institutional activities for His church: publishing, health, and education. Also, the Spirit of Prophecy has guided the pastoral, evangelistic, missionary, and administrative expansion of the church. In fact, the Spirit of Prophecy has counsel on just about every aspect of life including theology, lifestyle, personal health, the family, the home, young people, interpersonal relationships, personal stewardship, you name it! The Spirit of Prophecy is still guiding God’s people and always will until the Lord returns. If you have any questions about the project visit our Contact Us page.

JONVIL