I think you misunderstand. Just because Ellen White says something .... does not mean that the church believes it.
I have been trying hard to demonstrate this ever since arriving at this forum ... yet you still do not get it.
What the church believes is reflected in the Fundamental Beliefs. Our church does not believe each and every word that came from the pen of Ellen White. Although she is a good source of truth. She would never claim that what she said was what the church believed. She herself said Don’t believe things because Sister White said this or Sister White said that.
I can provide many more quotes from Ellen White that are way off base as far as most in the church is concerned and as far as I am concerned. But then there are many Anti Ellen White and Anti- SDA sites that can do that better than I can.
Bottom line ... Don’t put your faith in Ellen White. Put it in the Bible and the Bible alone. This was the clear message of Ellen White.
PS. I don’t mind stating here clearly .... I do not believe in your view that those who reject the Gospel and who curse God’s name .... and who state they do not want to go to Heaven .... that these people are required to go to Heaven. I believe that God is a loving God and will respect our wishes. Salvation is there ... but if at some point in our life we come to the belief that we don’t want it .... God will respect that and not force our will. God does not wish to have rebellion in Heaven again. So, if at the end of your life ... you decide to join the side of those opposed to Jesus .... He will not force you to go to Heaven. And any of us at some point has the free will to decide that. My salvation is secured YES. But at any point ... I could reject that and join forces with Satan.
Therefore I have to reject your view that we are saved now and will be saved no matter what we decide in the future.
Hey ... just for your entertainment .... I have one more Ellen White quote that I just found. I am in the process of trying to figure it out . But it appears she would have us time our toileting experience. I am sure that an Ellen White expert could help explain this one. But for the moment I place it in the catagory of the strange.
“Every hour squandered over the toilet should reprove them for leaving the intellect to lie waste.” 4T 643
Perhaps some of those lurkers can help me with this one.
PS. I don’t mind stating here clearly .... I do not believe in your view that those who reject the Gospel and who curse God’s name .... and who state they do not want to go to Heaven .... that these people are required to go to Heaven. I believe that God is a loving God and will respect our wishes. Salvation is there ... but if at some point in our life we come to the belief that we don’t want it .... God will respect that and not force our will. God does not wish to have rebellion in Heaven again. So, if at the end of your life ... you decide to join the side of those opposed to Jesus .... He will not force you to go to Heaven. And any of us at some point has the free will to decide that. My salvation is secured YES. But at any point ... I could reject that and join forces with Satan.
Therefore I have to reject your view that we are saved now and will be saved no matter what we decide in the future..
You assume that we believe that we will be saved even if we will reject Jesus in the future. Obviously you had not bothered to read what we said about the perseverence of the saints, which basically affirms that the true believers will be preserved in faith by God’s power until the day of redemption . That’s why in the parable of the Good Shepherd, He’s carrying the sheep all the way to heaven. The difference between our view of salvation and your view is that you think that salvation includes salvation from ourselves and our wishes too , which are sinful and in constant and permanent rebellion toward God. Nothing good dwells in us, and if God will indeed respect our sinful wishes, nobody will be saved. On the other hand, giving us a new heart, new wishes, faith, is not forcing us to do what is good, or to be saved, but it is instilling in us the right wishes, desires, in order for us to trust and love Him. And this work of God is done without our participation, because we have nothing good in us with which we can participate in the process of sanctification. All our desires are sinful and rebellious toward Him, and consequently, any meaningful participation which can come from us is on the side of opposition to God, not in harmony with Him
That’s what happens when an unbiblical view of sin is entertained and the sovereignty of God is denied. This is why the greatest need of the current evangelical world, beside the SDA Church is to rediscover or discover for the first time, the gospel of the Reformation, in which man is a great sinner and Christ is a great savior.
I think you misunderstand. Just because Ellen White says something...does not mean that the church believes it.
I have been trying to demonstrate this ever since arriving at this forum...yet you still do not get it.
Brother, I think someone forgot to forward the memo to the General Conference of SDA, whose ‘Adult Study’ book states in large print to the ‘church members’ “LET ELLEN G.WHITE help you study! on the first page of every book.
The memo also did not go to the ‘ADVENTIST WORLD’ staff who print a monthly column ‘Spirit of Prophecy’ by Ellen White, endorsing of course all the ‘thought inspiration’ received form the personal angelic being with whom she frequently spoke.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
2Cor.11:14 And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
For your information, brother G.H, the health message is not the gospel, neither is the Investigative Judgement, the Sabbath ‘truth’(?), nor any of those scary topics that are preached at Revelation Seminars or Amazing Facts seminars.
The Gospel is good news, not scare tactics to get christians who love the Lord already,into the SDA church., in an underhanded, deceptive fashion, I might add.
Singing “Jesus paid it all” and then trying to find out how best I can keep the Sabbath, or refrain from eating things that are to be accepted with thanksgiving,in order to try to please him, makes very little sense.
I think you misunderstand. Just because Ellen White says something...does not mean that the church believes it.
I have been trying to demonstrate this ever since arriving at this forum...yet you still do not get it.
Brother, I think someone forgot to forward the memo to the General Conference of SDA, whose ‘Adult Study’ book states in large print to the ‘church members’ “LET ELLEN G.WHITE help you study! on the first page of every book.
The memo also did not go to the ‘ADVENTIST WORLD’ staff who print a monthly colum ‘Spirit of Prophecy’ by Ellen White, endorsing of course all the ‘thought inspiration’ received form the personal angelic being with whom she frequently spoke.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
2Cor.11:14 And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
For your information, brother G.H, the health message is not the gospel, neither is the Investigative Judgement, the Sabbath ‘truth’(?), nor any of those scary topics that are preached at Revelation Seminars or Amazing Facts seminars.
The Gospel is good news, not scare tactics to get christians who love the Lord already,into the SDA church., in an underhanded, deceptive fashion, I might add.
Singing “Jesus paid it all” and then trying to find out how best I can keep the Sabbath, or refrain from eating things that are to be accepted with thanksgiving,in order to try to please him, makes very little sense.
Jesus is really all we need.
Thank you Phen B . Adventists would agree with all you have said and so do I.
G.H, You keep trying to prove that the people who sit in the pews in your church have a choice in what they believe. For years now, I am sure you know that everything in the SDA literature is tainted by Ellen White.
Our church does not believe each and every word that came from the pen of ellen White. (called the pen of inspiration) emphasis mine! Although she is a good source of truth. She would never claim that what she said was what the church believed.
Here is something I just read on another forum, thanks to the person posting there.
God does nothing in partnership with Satan. My work for the past thirty years bears the stamp of God or the stamp of the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The Testimonies are of the spirit of God, or of the Devil. In arraying yourself against the servants of God you are doing a work either for God or for the Devil.” Testimonies, vol.4, p.230
God has set me as a reprover of His people; and just so surely as He has laid upon me the heavy burden, He will make those to whom this message is given responsible for the manner in which they treat it. God will not be trifled with, and those who despise His work will receive according to their deeds. testimonies, vol.5, p. 679
Now G.H. you are trifling with God when you say that you don’t have to follow everything Ellen said, according to her own pen of inspiration. Did you not know this quote before you wrote your comment, or are you going to give me the “meaning” of what she said above?
Are SDAs the only people who can understand and interpret the English language?
Phen B. Do you actually believe everything that Ellen White has to say. I certainly don’t agree with the quotes you provided and neither do most SDAs. We are free to accept what is Biblical from her and throw out the rest. In with the good ... out with the bad. Just because she says something does not mean that I have to believe or accept it. I would encourage you to have the same approach. And I think you will see some real beauty in the author of Ellen White.
I would also encourage you to use this principle to all Christian authors you read.
...For your information, brother G.H, the health message is not the gospel, neither is the Investigative Judgement, the Sabbath ‘truth’(?), nor any of those scary topics that are preached at Revelation Seminars or Amazing Facts seminars.
To which GH replied:
Thank you Phen B . Adventists would agree with all you have said and so do I.
Praise God.
GH,
If Adventists would agree that these things AREN’T the gospel, then why are these things preached as an alternative, the IJ of which is even antithetical to it? It also appears that you agree that the gospel ISN’T preached at Revelation seminars or Amazing Facts seminars. It is refreshing to see an SDA who actually knows and admits this. Thanks for that.
...For your information, brother G.H, the health message is not the gospel, neither is the Investigative Judgement, the Sabbath ‘truth’(?), nor any of those scary topics that are preached at Revelation Seminars or Amazing Facts seminars.
To which GH replied:
Thank you Phen B . Adventists would agree with all you have said and so do I.
Praise God.
GH,
If Adventists would agree that these things AREN’T the gospel, then why are these things preached as an alternative, the IJ of which is even antithetical to it? It also appears that you agree that the gospel ISN’T preached at Revelation seminars or Amazing Facts seminars. It is refreshing to see an SDA who actually knows and admits this. Thanks for that.
You’re welcome Aaron.
Yes, in addition to the Gospel .... we preach and teach many things such as Health ... at seminars. Health is not the Gospel. But it is an interesting and helpful topic. Revelation is not required for ones salvation .... but it IS in the Bible and it IS interesting. SO, we preach it. Are you opposed to preaching certain portions of the Bible? I would be interested in seeing a list of scripture that you would be opposed to preaching. Would you be willing to do that?
G.H, This is what I believe. The bible is true. Jesus is truth. In him there is no shadow, just pure light.
I need no other author, since he is the author and finisher of my faith. I have the faith of Jesus Christ, as did the apostles. Without the faith of and in Jesus, it is impossible to please him. The only righteousness I need is the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
I can bring nothing to him, all I can do is accept his grace, which is FREE.
Thank you, Jesus, for dying for my sins and now I can declare without any pride, I am saved, and nothing can take me out of your hands, because you chose me even before I was conceived .
This is confidence in a person, Jesus Christ, not a day, or a religion or anything earthly. Boasting is excluded, once you find the source of life, Jesus Christ.
Phen B. Do you actually believe everything that Ellen White has to say. I certainly don’t agree with the quotes you provided and neither do most SDAs. We are free to accept what is Biblical from her and throw out the rest. In with the good ... out with the bad. Just because she says something does not mean that I have to believe or accept it. I would encourage you to have the same approach. And I think you will see some real beauty in the author of Ellen White.
I would also encourage you to use this principle to all Christian authors you read.
Phen,
Because, after all, Ellen White is just like any of the other thousands of Christian writers out there whose writings hold no more weight with Adventists then, say, Phillip Yancey or Max Lucado. These guys are sources of truth, as well. And don’t you know that the ABC’s stock far more books by non-Adventist authors than SDA ones? I’m really sorry you people feel like you have drag the name of a good, Christian woman through the mud.
Surely you know by now that you have to take the good with the bad, just like with the Biblical writers because they were obviously wrong on occasion, too. If Ellen claims that she saw in a vision that “solitary vice” causes tuberculosis, your head to cave in, dwarfism, or cancerous humors then you can toss it because she hadn’t “grown” as a prophet yet and that was back before God had solved their communication problem. Why can’t you just be positive and focus on all the flowery, touchy-feely stuff she “borrowed” from the other writers the Lord directed her to “borrow” from?
Oh, and something funny just happened while I was making some brownies. I ran out of fudge so since it’s similar in color and texture I collected just a little doggy doody from the backyard and blended it in with the rest of the mixture. But it’s fine because there is far more of the good stuff to enjoy and only just a little of the bad. As a matter of fact, unless you eat brownies a lot, at first taste you might not even know the difference.
...For your information, brother G.H, the health message is not the gospel, neither is the Investigative Judgement, the Sabbath ‘truth’(?), nor any of those scary topics that are preached at Revelation Seminars or Amazing Facts seminars.
To which GH replied:
Thank you Phen B . Adventists would agree with all you have said and so do I.
Praise God.
GH,
If Adventists would agree that these things AREN’T the gospel, then why are these things preached as an alternative, the IJ of which is even antithetical to it? It also appears that you agree that the gospel ISN’T preached at Revelation seminars or Amazing Facts seminars. It is refreshing to see an SDA who actually knows and admits this. Thanks for that.
You’re welcome Aaron.
Yes, in addition to the Gospel .... we preach and teach many things such as Health ... at seminars. Health is not the Gospel. But it is an interesting and helpful topic. Revelation is not required for ones salvation .... but it IS in the Bible and it IS interesting. SO, we preach it. Are you opposed to preaching certain portions of the Bible? I would be interested in seeing a list of scripture that you would be opposed to preaching. Would you be willing to do that?
G.H.,
Nice try, but anyone who has attended the meetings in question know what is covered there...the importance of “keeping” all of the 10 commandments (especially the 4th), the Mark of the Beast and the rest of the SDA/EGW interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, Sabbath, and a diet that makes God happy. This is to the exclusion of the actual gospel. The lurkers who may not be all that famliliar with Adventism may buy your claim, but anyone who grew up Adventist and embraces intellectual honesty couldn’t.
G.H, This is what I believe. The bible is true. Jesus is truth. In him there is no shadow, just pure light.
I need no other author, since he is the author and finisher of my faith. I have the faith of Jesus Christ, as did the apostles. Without the faith of and in Jesus, it is impossible to please him. The only righteousness I need is the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
I can bring nothing to him, all I can do is accept his grace, which is FREE.
Thank you, Jesus, for dying for my sins and now I can declare without any pride, I am saved, and nothing can take me out of your hands, because you chose me even before I was conceived .
This is confidence in a person, Jesus Christ, not a day, or a religion or anything earthly. Boasting is excluded, once you find the source of life, Jesus Christ.
I hope you have the same boldness G.H. God Bless..
What a beautiful testimony Phen B. You have said it so well. Thank you. We really don’t need the denominational divisions but they are a reality. We do have them. But we are united in the belief of what you have given witness to. I like that you pointed out that JESUS is the author and finisher of our faith. How true. We don’t need any other authors. And Ellen White and most SDAs would agree.
This has been my message from the beginning. We ARE united in the Gospel. We have that in agreement. All the other interpretations of scripture are not important. We will find out who has the right interpretation of the rest ... when Jesus returns and we will have eternity to study and understand. This does not discount the fact that we need to try to understand all scripture now. But I have a feeling that most of us will find out that we got much of it wrong here on this earth.
What we need to know is what your post outlined.
I just sincerely hope you can believe me when I say that most SDAs are in agreement with you on the Gospel. The other details .... we can agree to disagree. Is that good with you?
Blessings ......
“Many are constantly questioning, “Wherewith shall I come before the Lord, and bow myself before the high God? Shall I come before Him with burnt-offerings, with calves of a year old? Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil?” But “He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?” Micah 6:6-8. “ COL 210
Nice try, but anyone who has attended the meetings in question know what is covered there...the importance of “keeping” all of the 10 commandments (especially the 4th), the Mark of the Beast and the rest of the SDA/EGW interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, Sabbath, and a diet that makes God happy.
You could add the issue of Health. We think it is important to take care of our Health. YES. It has nothing to do with earning salvation. And YES. We do also preach and teach that we should follow the example of Jesus in ‘keeping’ all ten commandments. Again .... it has nothing to do with us earning salvation. As saved Christians we try to follow the example of Jesus. That is part of being a follower of Christ. But we are SAVED. That is a done deal. So the following part does not earn us what is already ours ... SALVATION.
If in the end ... we find out that keeping the commandments was not something we were suppose to do .... That will not affect our SAVED status. If it turns out that we indeed were suppose to keep the commandments of God such as thou shalt not kill or thou shalt not commit adultry etc etc. and we have done that to the best of our ability .... it will also not make one bit of difference. We are still sinners and we bring nothing worthy to the table except that we have the Robe of HIS Righteousness.
WE are ALL in the same boat. Moses and David ... the murderers ..... are looked at just as I am looked at .... PERFECT because of the Life of Jesus that is placed to our account . His blood made this possible. Praise His Name.
“ Those who love and serve God should be allowed to follow their own convictions. We may not feel justified in doing as they do, but we should not allow differences of opinion to create disunion.” CD 352
“And don’t you give a rap any more what “Sister White said"-- “Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that,” and “Sister White said the other thing.” Ellen White SpM 167
