I was out in the open air enjoying God’s creation for a while. Now that is what I call being Health conscious.

You know Aaron, so far G.H has not shown me the text in the bible that says we are to ignore the bad things that a prophet writes, and just keep the good.
I would also like to know which prophet in the bible is a good example of this, and which prophet experienced this “growth” as a prophet, as the current SDA pastors are telling their gullible lay people.

G.H does not seem to understand the seriousness of one claiming to be a prophet of God , when God really did not call that person.

The problem is, that many Adventists do not even realize this either. They were brought up in the belief that this woman was a true prophet, as the bible prophets were. There was no investigation (pardon the pun) into what constitutes a true prophet according to the bible standard. Many SDAs, me included, as I grew up, just assumed that this was true.

It is only the Holy Spirit of God who leads one to start to question the truthfulness of this claim at the time God designates, and leads one to accept the biblical definition.

This finally leads one to disbelieve the claim that Ellen White is a true prophet.

A woman once put a little arsenic in her husband’s food on a daily basis. Eventually he died. Oh, but he had some great tasting food in the mean time, since she was a good cook and he could not detect that anything was amiss.

Aaron, I see your fudge brownies and I raise you arsenic.

re: post Aug.26, 2008 12:19 PM,

G.H., Nice try, but anyone who has attended the meetings in question know what is covered…

G.H and others act as though ex-Adventists were never in an SDA church and were never part of knowingly or unknowingly deceiving people into coming to these Daniel and Revelation thing-a-ma-jiggies.

I can give you some of the weirdest topics they choose, in order to arouse interest.

And to G.H, just last year in my area, a husband and wife working for Amazing Facts (NOT), were in our area. They put an ad. in the paper and on the T.V and did not reveal that they were SDA.  If I was not aware of their tactics, I would not have known who they were.

I called a Pastor and asked him why they keep doing this deceptive advertizing and he said, “ how are you going to get people to come if they know it is the SDA church putting it on?  You don’t want to scare people away before they come, do you?”

Now, if people are going to be scared, something is definitely wrong with this picture of the SDA church. The Gospel is GOOD NEWS! Not scare tactics!

Jesus is really all we need.

Phen B stated:

The problem is, that many Adventists do not even realize this either. They were brought up in the belief that this woman was a true prophet, as the bible prophets were. There was no investigation (pardon the pun) into what constitutes a true prophet according to the bible standard. Many SDAs, me included, as I grew up, just assumed that this was true.

Very, very true.  Back when I was at Andrews in the late ‘90’s I had a few discussions about religion with one of my classmates, who was also one of my best friends in my program, and who happened to be Mormon.  When he asked why our church believed Ellen White was a prophet of God it startled me a bit that my arguments (as weak as they were) were very similar to his arguments for Joseph Smith who I ”knew” was a false prophet.  At the time I didn’t do any further investigation but a few years later, when I began to question a few of the other EGW things I was hearing quoted in church, it came rushing back to me.

Aaron

Phen B.

Please name me one prophet that had all of his/her words recorded.
Name one prophet that was without fault.
Name one prophet that never said anything wrong or without fault.
Name one prophet that did not grow in their religious experience.

The donkey was a one time prophet. He did not continue as a prophet.
He did not stop growing. No. He continued as a faulty donkey. He
sinned before he was a prophet and he continued to sin after being
a prophet. He had one job and completed that job. Went on to live his
life as a sinful donkey.

Ellen White had a small short term / part time job as a prophet. It was
short lived. Our job is to take the little bit of prophetness and to profit
from it. And then leave the rest of her life alone.

Just like the donkey. We did not follow the donkey the rest of his life to
see if he sinned or left a bad influence. We take the message ... profit
from it and then move on.

What I am saying is that we don’t need to look at or accept all the periphery
of her life and writings. Just accept the message and let her live her life ...
and die in peace.

If you don’t think she had any messages that were prophetness ... then
that is fine. It is not the end of the world. You may miss out on a blessing.
But you are not condemned. No biggie. But, don’t condemn the rest of us
who find blessing in some of what she has given us.

Glorify Him - 27 August 2008 10:22 AM

Phen B.

Please name me one prophet that had all of his/her words recorded.
Name one prophet that was without fault.
Name one prophet that never said anything wrong or without fault.
Name one prophet that did not grow in their religious experience.

Unfortunately I have yet to found a true prophet which at the beginning of it’s ministry messed up the message of the gospel than for 5 years (1845-1850) endorsed the idea that salvation was confined within the ranks of those who accepted Miller’s date-setting message. For six years, all the workings of the Holy Spirit outside the “household of faith” as it was called the group of people who still believed in the validity of the Millerite message, all conversions were classified as false conversions, as workings of the devil intended to deceive the Millerite believers into thinking that God is still working through the gospel for the world.

Five years, for five years, God was the exclusive possession of the millerites. For the rest, no mercy. This message was the basis for accepting Ellen White as prophet. False from the beginning, opposed to the gospel. Stay away from such a spirit. 

Gabriel

GH, a Mormon could easily use your reasoning to support the work of Joseph Smith. The Bible gives objective criteria to evaluate the words of supposed prophets, which you avoid applying to Ellen White. When we start using arguments like yours, we can easily excuse any level of false teaching in whatever person we’d like to believe is God’s messenger. Gabriel is right when he asks you to consider Ellen White’s early claims. What prophet would claim to have exclusive access to salvation for a group who set a date for Christ’s return, itself a direct contradiction of Scripture (Matthew 24:36)?

Furthermore, what prophet would claim that Bible-believing Christian pastors had the “blood of souls” on their hands for not going along with the Millerite date-setting movement (EW 233.2)? What prophet would claim that Christians who did not know which heavenly apartment to send their prayers were actually praying to Satan (EW 56.1)? What prophet would label Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ and worship together on Sunday as “apostate” (AG 59.4)?

Please further consider that even after these early false teachings and prophecies, Ellen White went on to promote a system of works-based righteousness (occasionally mixed in with orthodox-sounding teachings which were borrowed from others) that similarly undermines her prophetic status. If Ellen White received her instruction from God, why did she mess up the gospel of righteousness by faith alone so badly? Surely God would not have a problem faithfully communicating the very core truth of Scripture to one of His prophets!

The apostle Paul said that we should not tolerate anyone who promotes a false gospel, even if we hear it from angels or “angel guides”, as in the case of Mrs. White (Galatians 1:8-9) Why do you turn a blind eye toward this Scriptural warning and give your prophet free reign to denounce Christians in the name of God, claim salvation for herself and her little group, and defile the very core truth of Scripture?

Greg

Greg ... None of us are perfect.

“I wish that self should be hid in Jesus. I wish self to be crucified. I do not claim infallibility, or even perfection of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life. Had I followed my Saviour more closely, I should not have to mourn so much my unlikeness to His dear image.” 20 MR 23

It has been shown clearly ... that God uses the most unlikely ... weak and sinful of mankind to present His message.

And if He can us a donkey .... He can use the least of us.

GH, so do we excuse Joseph Smith for teaching Mormons a false gospel because nobody is perfect? Every false prophet the world has ever known can hide behind the excuse you use to cover Ellen White’s antibiblical teachings.

Greg

“I would have humility of mind, and be willing to be instructed as a child. The Lord has been pleased to give me great light, yet I know that He leads other minds, and opens to them the mysteries of His Word, and I want to receive every ray of light that God shall send me, though it should come through the humblest of His servants.” (1888 Mat. 163)

What this quote points out is that she has some light and others have some. Take what is good and throw out what is bad. I happen to accept much of what Philip Yancey has to say. But I throw out that which is not Biblical. I do the same with Ellen White. That which is not Biblical ... I toss. So, you can do the same with Joseph Smith.

Bottom line. The Bible is ALWAYS to be your guide. You can’t go wrong with that.

Glorify Him - 27 August 2008 04:25 PM

What this quote points out is that she has some light and others have some. Take what is good and throw out what is bad. I happen to accept much of what Philip Yancey has to say. But I throw out that which is not Biblical. I do the same with Ellen White. That which is not Biblical ... I toss. So, you can do the same with Joseph Smith.

Why must we sift through thousands of pages of false doctrine from Ellen White, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell, Mary Baker Eddy and whatever other false prophet exists to find a nugget of truth buried amid the error? Why does the world need any of these people when we already have the Bible? The answer—none of the churches these false prophets founded would exist without their exclusive truth claims.

It’s obvious what is going on here, GH. You’re desperately trying to find some way to keep the structure of Adventism intact to the point that you’ll look anti-biblical heresy squarely in the eye and say, “So what?” If you followed your conclusions to their logical end, the structure of Adventism would collapse and your spouse would be without a job. This is obviously not something that is acceptable to you, so you persist in clinging to error, even giving others who are similarly stuck like you (e.g. Mormons, Christian Scientists and Jehovah’s Witnesses) motivation to stay right where they are, immersed in all the false doctrine of their respective churches and prophets.

Based on your admission that Ellen White has taught unbiblical doctrine to the point of denouncing other Christians and accusing them of praying to Satan, you would have to be out of your mind to recommend that anybody read her, much less consider her a source of truth.

“Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power” (Hebrews 1:1-3 ESV)

The Bible says the world does not need a prophet to clarify what Jesus has already made clear, much less a false prophet who actively obscures his teachings.

Greg

I fully agree with you Greg.

We certainly don’t need her or any of the current prophets past prophets or non-prophets or even non-profits.

I recommend the Bible and the BIble alone.

But on occasion ... I enjoy the (non-required) pleasure of Philip Yancey or Ellen White.

Amen Glorify Him. Amen.

I fully agree with you .....

Glorify Him - 27 August 2008 05:09 PM

Amen Glorify Him. Amen.

I fully agree with you .....

Are there multiple personalities at work here? Why are you saying “amen” to yourself?

Why would anyone want to become an Adventist, anyway, if they can simply enjoy the pleasure of whatever system they’re currently in, since it’s all good according to you? Would you even try to help a Mormon out of Mormonism knowing that they might be perfectly content to enjoy the “pleasure” of their comfortable position and the writings of Joseph Smith?

Greg

Greg - 27 August 2008 06:38 PM

Glorify Him - 27 August 2008 05:09 PM

Amen Glorify Him. Amen.

I fully agree with you .....

Are there multiple personalities at work here? Why are you saying “amen” to yourself?

Why would anyone want to become an Adventist, anyway, if they can simply enjoy the pleasure of whatever system they’re currently in, since it’s all good according to you? Would you even try to help a Mormon out of Mormonism knowing that they might be perfectly content to enjoy the “pleasure” of their comfortable position and the writings of Joseph Smith?

Greg

I would tell them ... In with the Good ... Out with the Bad. Compare everything to scripture and only accept that which agrees with scripture. I think anyone would be safe with that approach. It would most certainly draw them to the SDA church.

And about the AMENs .... There are so few ... No ... there is NO ONE who agrees with me on this forum .... So, I have to agree with my SELF. It still is a lonely business though. Shirley there is someone out there in cyberspace that would give me comfort.

Greg - 27 August 2008 06:38 PM

Glorify Him - 27 August 2008 05:09 PM

Amen Glorify Him. Amen.

I fully agree with you .....

Are there multiple personalities at work here? Why are you saying “amen” to yourself?

Why would anyone want to become an Adventist, anyway, if they can simply enjoy the pleasure of whatever system they’re currently in, since it’s all good according to you? Would you even try to help a Mormon out of Mormonism knowing that they might be perfectly content to enjoy the “pleasure” of their comfortable position and the writings of Joseph Smith?

Greg

For that matter, taking this idea of pick out the good stuff from the bad stuff no matter how bad the bad stuff is, everyone should stay right where they are in any world religion.  Take Islam, for instance.  Sure there’s far-fetched, nonsense there, but there are beautiful passages in the Koran, as well.  Jesus is even a good guy in their religion so it can’t be all bad, can it?  Why focus on the bad?

Glorify Him - 27 August 2008 10:22 AM

Phen B.

Please name me one prophet that had all of his/her words recorded.
Name one prophet that was without fault.
Name one prophet that never said anything wrong or without fault.
Name one prophet that did not grow in their religious experience.

GH,

What do these challenges have to do with this discussion?  No one here has claimed otherwise.

When someone says they were given VISIONS FROM GOD and the things they were supposedly shown were gravely false, should this person be trusted as a true prophet of God?

You also seem to fancy comparing Ellen White and Phillip Yancey as equals.  Did Yancey receive visions from God and numerous visits from an angel guide or “handsome, young man”?