JeremyG - 27 September 2009 09:07 PM

Protestant101 - 27 September 2009 06:44 PM

To Jeremy: Regarding your last post to me above. We must also notice how that the same paragraph, which says “justify” also says, of those same works, “bear their testimony,” meaning not that these “works” themselves justify, and when we read the whole picture of what Ellen White wrote on this subject; it is not hard to see how she points to Jesus, as the Savior, and as the Just, and the Justifer. Taking one small quote or just two words and making it into an entire Adventist doctrine, (as in “what they really believe") does not in fact reflect our views.

Jeremy; you have a lot of mixed up confusing statements here about “judgment.” There is no “bema” in my Bible; and, if, as you say, that judgment is “nothing to do with our salvation;” why would anyone want to avoid it? At any rate, I have tried to say already that judgment does not =justification in Adventist teachings; it only reflects our justification, or lack thereof. It tells people why or why not we are saved by the blood of Jesus. This is why Ellen White wrote of our ‘works” how that they “bear their testimony...”

As for our salvation, Jesus makes it clear that, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24 NASB.)

That right there does away with any possibility of an IJ.

Jeremy

It would only “do away with an “IJ” if this doctrine was to teach that judgment = justification; which it does not. Granted, anti-Adventists adherents would have you think differently.

Protestant101 - 01 October 2009 10:00 AM

Jeremy; you have a lot of mixed up confusing statements here about “judgment.” There is no “bema” in my Bible; and, if, as you say, that judgment is “nothing to do with our salvation;” why would anyone want to avoid it? At any rate, I have tried to say already that judgment does not =justification in Adventist teachings; it only reflects our justification, or lack thereof. It tells people why or why not we are saved by the blood of Jesus. This is why Ellen White wrote of our ‘works” how that they “bear their testimony...”

I don’t know what you find so “mixed up” or “confusing” about my statements. This is standard Christian theology.

As I said, the word used in the original Greek is “bema.” This word is used for the “judgment seat” mentioned in Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, which are talking about a judgment of rewards. And who said that anyone wants to avoid it? All believers will appear before the Bema seat, according to the New Testament.

Protestant101 - 01 October 2009 10:00 AM

As for our salvation, Jesus makes it clear that, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24 NASB.)

That right there does away with any possibility of an IJ.

Jeremy

It would only “do away with an “IJ” if this doctrine was to teach that judgment = justification; which it does not. Granted, anti-Adventists adherents would have you think differently.

Jesus says that believers do not come into judgment. EGW and the IJ doctrine deny this.

Jeremy

JeremyG - 01 October 2009 11:24 AM

Protestant101 - 01 October 2009 10:00 AM

Jeremy; you have a lot of mixed up confusing statements here about “judgment.” There is no “bema” in my Bible; and, if, as you say, that judgment is “nothing to do with our salvation;” why would anyone want to avoid it? At any rate, I have tried to say already that judgment does not =justification in Adventist teachings; it only reflects our justification, or lack thereof. It tells people why or why not we are saved by the blood of Jesus. This is why Ellen White wrote of our ‘works” how that they “bear their testimony...”

I don’t know what you find so “mixed up” or “confusing” about my statements. This is standard Christian theology.

As I said, the word used in the original Greek is “bema.” This word is used for the “judgment seat” mentioned in Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, which are talking about a judgment of rewards. And who said that anyone wants to avoid it? All believers will appear before the Bema seat, according to the New Testament.

Protestant101 - 01 October 2009 10:00 AM

As for our salvation, Jesus makes it clear that, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.” (John 5:24 NASB.)

That right there does away with any possibility of an IJ.

Jeremy

It would only “do away with an “IJ” if this doctrine was to teach that judgment = justification; which it does not. Granted, anti-Adventists adherents would have you think differently.

Jesus says that believers do not come into judgment. EGW and the IJ doctrine deny this.

Jeremy

So you are then equating judgment with justification in your accusations against Adventists here? And, in the face of Bible texts which clearly say everyone has to appear before the judgment seat, you still say “believers don’t have to worry about it?” That is really mixed up to me. You are also accusing the Bible of being contradictory in such statements. Why do some texts say we are judged, and others say we are not? You need to get the context straight, and Adventist teachings straight, before you can offer valid criticism.