Ellen White never taught a works-based gospel.  She did, instead, teach that “true faith WORKS by love (Galatians 5:6) and purifies the soul ( II Corinthians 7:1) for faith without works is a dead, spiritless counterfeit of true faith.  As Ephesians 2:10 teaches, we have been “created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has foreordained that we should walk in them.”

The gospel is the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, who obtained for us all an eternal redemption, a gift of His righteousness to be received by faith alone. 

Ellen White did NOT teach that every time you sinned, you forfeited your justification, and thus she would not reflect the same teachings as Finney.  She taught that the commission of a known, willful sin silences the voice of the Spirit, and I believe that too.  The person who commits a known, willful sin, unless he/she confesses and repents, will not find mercy, until they do.  He who confesses and forsakes His sins will find mercy.  God bless.

One of the major problems I see is that many are evaluating SDA’s based on the theology of the “historic Adventists” who are teaching gross legalism and even a theology akin to Roman Catholicism, in terms of sanctification meriting one’s justification.  They do not speak for the SDA church at all, for the SDA church clearly teaches justification by faith alone, in the atoning sacrifice and perfect righteousness of Christ.  We are saved by faith in His merits alone.  The New Covenant promise is to write love, the law, the faith of Jesus, the mind of Jesus, the life of Jesus, in our hearts and minds, internalizing those principles in a life of faith.  That is not legalism, but true Christianity. 

I am an Adventist, and I agree with the stated concerns, in that works do not merit Justification, but do not believe that EGW’s statement is correctly understood.  When we place faith in the merits of Christ alone, God does grant to us the robe of Christ’s righteousness, He is everything to us.  What kind of faith is God speaking about?  A true living faith, not the dead faith of James 2.  A heart that truly has surrendered to God, a heart that is willing to walk by faith, which always produces a fruit of obedience.  These are not the works that justify as in the Roman Catholic system, but the works that are the “fruits” of living faith.  God does not accept a false, rebellious, presumptious, statement of faith, but a true heart conversion to Christ.  Romans 6:17 “But God be thanked that though you were servants of sin, you OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.  Obedience is a heart issue, and the real obedience is to accept the Gospel, then He writes His law in your heart, and you are made into a new creature, with a new heart of flesh, and He “causes us to walk in His statues.” I see nothing legalistic in allowing Christ into my heart and life.  God bless

Hi Tom, and welcome to 4TG! I moved a couple of your comments to this thread so they will be in context and will keep the other thread on topic. I am a bit pressed for time at the moment, but I will reply to some of your comments later today.

Many blessings in Christ,

Greg

Posted anonymously by: dwayne

TomrC,

I am a Christian and will not be embracing sdaism ever again. This may be a little hard for you to accept, but no personal offence is intended or implied. You have passion and zeal but you are railling against those that have chosen the way, the truth and the life over sdaism and her false prophet.

In 4 of your 5 posts you bemoan about egw and about how she’s not “correctly understood”. Have I got news for you! It doesn’t matter. Who cares about egw? Who cares about all those confusing, Biblically contradicting teachings such as Satan being the sin bearer for people of God?

Christians care about their One and only sin bearer Jesus Christ the Righteous and Him crucified for the bearing and burial of their sins. Sins, Christ promised to remember no more. No more confusion, praise God for His magnanomous mercy!

Your claim that we “never understood fully the Adventist message” is void of evidence. Having been an sda for decades I can personally vouch for the adventist mess age.

Christians are concerned with the Biblical message, that of their all sufficient Lord and Savior whose name is Jesus Christ. That message is called the Gospel. On that, I’m sure we can agree.

Posted anonymously by: Barry

I have read many of the comments here and frankly I do not understand.  If people do not wish to believe in the Sabbath of the 10 Commandments, that is their choice.  Jesus, who loves us gave us 10 rules to follow to protect our relationship with both God and our neighbor.  Most Christians do not really wish to spend time with God or their neighbor, they simply wish to watch television.  That is maybe why they object so harshly against the Sabbath when we are called to spend 24 whole hours with Jesus and our believing friends.  Maybe that was harsh.  Sorry.  But really, Ellen White has wrote a lot of stuff over the years of her life.  Peter said that Paul’s writtings were difficult to understand sometimes and that unlearned men “twist” them.  The bottom line is that Ellen White loved Jesus.  So do I.  That is why I spend time with Him for the whole day on Sabbath.  Not to earn salvation in some way, just because I love Him.  To me, the Sabbath is beautiful, because Jesus is beautiful.  He made it in Genesis when He rested.  I love Him so I keep it to honor Him who loved me first.  God bless.

Hi Barry and a warm welcome to 4TG!

I think you will find on this forum a somewhat different spirit regarding the Sabbath than you will find on other forums. I believe according to Romans 14:5,6 that you have every right to keep the Sabbath. But that same verse also says that it is also OK not to regard the day. As long as you believe that the Sabbath doesn’t contribute to your salvation in any way, then it is fine to reserve that 24 hour time each week, and we wish you God’s blessings in so doing. I believe though that there is no warrant for the SDA idea of making the Sabbath the final test for salvation and the seal of God, and in fact this type of theology is dangerous and makes one to be in danger of Paul’s warning in Galatians 1:8,9.

Stan

Posted anonymously by: dwayne

Welcome Barry,

With much respect, your post is very classic sda speak. I can so relate to your not understanding. When I was an sda, I too could not understand. Why would somone not, as you say, “believe in the Sabbath of the 10 Commandments”? My problem was that I was focusing on the veil. My relationship with God was all about the 10C, with particular emphasis on the 4th C. But by focusing on the shadow, I was unable to comprehend the reality, Jesus Christ. Praise God, He drew me into His more glorious covenant.

Now, as a new covenant Christian, my rest is in Jesus, not in a day. It was only when I entered into that rest by faith that I saw the weekly sabbath, and all the law, for the shadow that it really is; a shadow whose reality is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. While you may think that it is admirable to “spend time with Him for the whole day on Sabbath”, I challenge you to go deeper, much deeper. Enter into His rest. Sabbath in Christ, full time, not just one day a week.

I was going to ignore it, but your jab at Christians not really wishing to spend time with God is such a straw man. More classic sda speak. I know how it goes. And don’t forget to drag egw’s biblically contradicting, confusion filled writings into a comparison with the Scriptures of the Apostle Paul. Oh, wait, I see you threw that jibe in there too. How predictable and tiring.

Still, my challenge and prayers are with you.

Posted anonymously by: ounbb

The adventists who have distinct characteristics enough to be called a ‘cult’ may have problem with the unconfessed sins. After past sins are forgiven, sins from now on, none of them will be forgiven; and all of them will be automatically in peril by their own teaching contrary to what they expect!

You ask ‘how come?’.  Because we not only have so many sins of commission but also sins of ommission. No human being is capable of even asking forgiveness of all the sins of ommission. By definition, it is impossible.

May God have mercy on those souls who have sold or fallen in the scheme of salvation, be it adventist, Jehovah’s witness, mormons, Pure Gospel, full Gospel, Word of faith, tongue-speaker, etc. who are insisting on the impossible things God did not ask to do but put up by their own human hunger for power and pride and add something for their own human pleasure.

You should be able to understand all the human being’s behavior and activity [be it biological, personal, social, coorporate, economic, educational, political, religious, you name it] in these three terms: pleasure, pride and power. We have to know the purpose we have is not the technique we can use [e.g. ‘Purpose-driven’ thing] but the very person we come to know. We know who He is, thanks to God.

Ounbbl

John 3:16
Since leaving the SDA church I have pondered what it means to rest in Jesus every day and to spend one day trying to be exclusively His, which I never succeeded doing.
Right now I cannot think of a scripture but to rest in Jesus every day is to turn my life over to him on a daily basis, trusting that He will take me where He wants me.  It is spending time with Him every day and talking to Him throughout the day. It is listening to Him talk to me through the Bible and listening for the Holy Spirit to talk to me. It is following the promptings He gives me to talk to some one about Him.  I am not perfect at this, but God knows my heart. I am not perfect and any good I do, I know does not come from me.  It comes from God.  That is how I see my resting in Jesus Christ.
He is so awesome.
Diana

Welcome ounbb to 4TG!

Appreciate your comments. Don’t be a sranger.

Stan

Posted anonymously by: Matthew Chua

Dear friends, I don’t believe Ellen White is wrong at all about this. The part about understanding of the sanctuary and investigative judgment is essential--I believe she is right. But it is not the study that is essential; it is knowing what it stands for. I recommend Jack Sequeira’s exposition on this.
[url=http://www.jacksequeira.org]http://www.jacksequeira.org[/url]
The thing is, the sanctuary is the blueprint of salvation; its elements signify Christ’s work. And as for being without a mediator, you need to know what Christ’s role as a mediator is. Is it to show the Father that His children are spotless? Or is it to clear off the accusations Satan has against His people?
Just remember: “No mediator doesn’t mean no Savior.”
This is what Jack Sequeira wrote, and I find it compelling for me.

“Then there are others who say that the issue in the time of trouble will be sinless living. They base this view on a misunderstanding of the statement made by Ellen G. White that during the time of trouble we will have to live without a mediator or intercessor. However, we must not confuse the role Christ plays as our mediator or intercessor with the fact He is also our Saviour. The two are related but not synonymous.

As the believers’ High Priest, Christ is our mediator, but this ministry will cease when probation closes, since the saints will have already been vindicated in the investigative judgment. But Christ will never cease being our Saviour, especially in the time of trouble. Yes, I believe the power of God is greater than all the power Satan can master through sinful flesh, so that the Holy Spirit can give us total victory over sin. But nowhere in the Bible do we find that the issue in the time of trouble will be sinless living.”

So the role of Christ as mediator is against the Devil’s accusations (see 1888 Great Controversy “Investigative Judgment") but it does not mean Christ stops being Savior. But He will stop because the faith of His remaining true followers will be like His at the cross (the faith of Jesus). Not seeing any hope, but having faith in God’s promises despite the fierce adversity.
[url=http://www.jacksequeira.org/issues14.htm]http://www.jacksequeira.org/issues14.htm[/url]

Posted anonymously by: dwayne

Yo Matthew Chua,

Just remember: “No mediator doesn’t mean no Savior.”
This is what Jack Sequeira wrote, and I find it compelling for me.

I don’t see the Bible backing you up with what you think is so compelling. Check out Hebrews 7:24,25

As the believers’ High Priest, Christ is our mediator, but this ministry will cease when probation closes, since the saints will have already been vindicated in the investigative judgment.

Says Jack?! Thus the masses are led, not by the Word, but by traditions of men. I beg of you, study the Bible for correction, reproof, and instruction. Deception can have eternal consequences. 

My comments here will pertain to the discussion of the sabbath that occured a little while ago on this thread.  I will fully acknowledge the danger of assuming the sabbath will be the final test of salvation or faith in the end times.  I would also like to acknowledge the danger of saying the ten commandments have nothing to do with the Christian walk.  Please let me clarify before I am branded as a legalist. 

What I am saying is that the ten commandments should never be emphasized as a requirment for salvation, they are however a response to salvation and our love for Jesus Christ, though not kept by our own effort but by Christ who lives in us.  Now if the ten commandments are a response to salvation then wouldnt it stand that the 4th (in some manifestation or another) would also be a response to our salvation by Christ. 

Someone would never say that you are saved by Christ and your regenerated nature through the power of Christ keeps his law, well...that is all but that one about adultery.  The concept of the sabbath (taking a day for God and Godly Christian fellowship, as well as spending time with your family versus the legalistic keeping of a day and going down the checklist and making sure you dont do anything on it) I think is as equally a part of our response to salvation as not lying, stealing, or killing. 

The key here is that every commandment, which are all a part of our response to salvation and justification, should never be seen as something that if not kept will cause us to no longer be justified, though that does not mean we do not keep them it just means they have no effect on our justification.  If this is not clear feel free to ask for clarification, I have been doing much thought in this area lately and I believe that is what is at the heart of the Issues with sabbatarianism and the investigative judgment. 

Sabbath keeping itself is not the danger, the danger is when justification or imputed righteousness becomes contingent on keeping the sabbath.  I think that is the misunderstanding in my church that causes an unclear gospel presentation.