This may surprise you, but it is not unusual to find that former insiders know more about the Seventh-day Adventist Church than those still quietly sitting in their pews. After all, I am among the thousands who have left Adventism solely due to theological reasons. A wide spectrum of Seventh-day Adventists know very little about their history, doctrines, organizational structure, and governing policies. This fact is reiterated to me on a daily basis as I pray and study with Adventists worldwide.
With intentional ambiguity and complexity, many facets of Adventism are most difficult to examine, understand, and expose (i.e., their stance on abortion, their exclusive investigative judgment, etc.). Many of their leading apologists widely differ in their understanding of the doctrinal pillars in their belief system. It is not uncommon to find two opposing views, on many topics, in the writings of Ellen White. Therefore, whatever “Spirit of Prophecy” evidence you may present, the Adventist apologists can cite yet another contradicting quotation as also being “a continuing and authoritative SOURCE of truth.” In short, Ellen White is “all over the road” on many key doctrines. Consequently, the fragmenting of Adventism can be observed everywhere. Members of their conservative and liberal theological societies have been known to even refuse dining together when their meetings were held in the same vicinity.
By the way, I noticed that you didn’t provide the name of at least one current SDA pastor who shares your views. Why do you continue to have such an intense reluctance to validate your views and thereby enhance your credibility? Indeed, truth always invites examination. Have a good and godly day!
G.H, You said you agreed with what Dennis wrote above, but I am still at a loss to figure out your previous posts.
Was that your way of shutting down the conversation on the topic “Ellen G. White: Prophetess of health,” or have you actually been reading scripture that has convinced you that she is indeed a false prophet, thus the concession? It is good that there is agreement on “differing views and understandings on certain topics,” but things just don’t come out of a vacuum, and this does not really address the “health” topic.
If one (an SDA) is vegan or vegetarian, one surely believes like Ellen says, that he or she will be more ready for translation than one who consumes “dead flesh.”
The scripture says that God has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear son,” as soon as we hear and know and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Col: 1 (read all the verses) So who do the vegetarians believe, God or Ellen?
Someone noted that we cannot fulfill the spiritual with the physical. In other words, what I eat, does not determine my salvation as SDA’s believe.
I am praying for you, brother and any other SDA reading this post. Jesus is really all we need.
G.H, You said you agreed with what Dennis wrote above, but I am still at a loss to figure out your previous posts.
Was that your way of shutting down the conversation on the topic “Ellen G. White: Prophetess of health,” or have you actually been reading scripture that has convinced you that she is indeed a false prophet, thus the concession? It is good that there is agreement on “differing views and understandings on certain topics,” but things just don’t come out of a vacuum, and this does not really address the “health” topic.
If one (an SDA) is vegan or vegetarian, one surely believes like Ellen says, that he or she will be more ready for translation than one who consumes “dead flesh.”
The scripture says that God has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear son,” as soon as we hear and know and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.” Col: 1 (read all the verses) So who do the vegetarians believe, God or Ellen?
Someone noted that we cannot fulfill the spiritual with the physical. In other words, what I eat, does not determine my salvation as SDA’s believe.
I am praying for you, brother and any other SDA reading this post. Jesus is really all we need.
Greetings Phen B ...
I am not sure what post you are referring to. Could you quote the post that you disagree with? Regarding EGW and some of her health advice .... I have to say that not all of her advice was good. It was not all from God. But then part of her health message was her advice to not follow what she said. She dismissed the approach of Ellen White said this and Ellen White said that. She did not claim perfection. She did not feel her words were without error.
So, if my saying that I don’t agree with all she said ... means that she is called a false prophet ... then so be it.
But it is MY belief and the belief of most in my church ..... that we are to use the brain God gave us and to compare her words and advice with scripture and our own God given intelligence and inspiration from the Holy Spirit. What I eat does not determine my salvation to answer your question.
I would recommend a great book to you ... Steps to Christ. EGW outlines how dangerous making these kinds of ‘things’ our salvation. This is the tool of the Devil as she says. We are to abide in him and not focus on the ‘things’ or ‘works’. If our focus is on HIM ... IF we abide in HIM ... then all these ‘things’ will be worked out. But to focus our concern and time on things like ‘what we eat’ ... we will be following the path of the Devil. You can read all about this on pages 60-70 as I recall. If you need the exact pages ... I can try to look it up.
Again .... I apologize for bursting your bubble ... but we do not believe as you are trying to propose.
Hi Brother G.H,
In an earlier post you chided us for always talking about Elen White. I quoted you a scripture passage, and now you come back with a quotation from Ellen White, and a book she copied , excuse me,(wrote) called “Steps to Jesus” or (Christ) after you (conceded?) that she was a false prophet. I’m assuming that you really meant it when you said,
So, if my saying that I don’t agree with all she said ...means that she is called a false prophet...then so be it.
,
but I may be over enthusiastic here!
Now please tell me the bible text that says that we are to throw out the bad and keep the good in regards to a false prohet. I think the bible takes a very strong stance against false phophets, especially those who steal words.
Next, you talk to me as though I never came in contact with Adventism, by mentioning the said book Steps to Christ. Brother, I don’t ever have to sit in the SDA church again to know what the church teaches. It is always going to be basically what is written in the back of the bibles they give out at the Amazing Facts seminars and the other seminars where the SDA church pretend that they are just another church putting on a program in a hotel or a centre, never telling the people who they really are and then sucking them into the church.
“But to focus our concern and time on things like ‘what we eat’...we will be following the path of the Devil.”
So are you saying that Ellen White was following the Devil, since she put a whole lot of stress on ‘what we eat?’ Volumes and volumes, brother.
But it is MY belief and the belief of most in my church… that we are to use the brain God gave us to copare her words and advice with scripture and our own God given intelligence and inspitation from the Holy Spirit.
You sound so much like a prominent SDA apologist who thinks that former SDA must have ‘left their brains at the door’ for believing what Ellen said while they were SDA.
I agree, and this is what I did, but the Pastor and the lay folks in the SDA church refused to answer my questions when I told them that I studied the word of God and Ellen did not seem to line up with it. This is the experience of many who tried to question the SDA stance on the I.J, soul sleep, the sabbath question and a host of other topics.
Some even said that Jesus spoke in parables so that some people would not understand it, inferring that I did not get what the scripture meant, and that is the reason I did not agree with the SDA view any more.
You got that right sister. Amen. That is something we as Adventists can agree with you on. And you will find that the church and Ellen White would also agree with you on this point.
I recently spent some time with some SDA relatives and friends, and what amazed me is how many things they refused to eat. It is so stark, now that I am no longer closely connected to Adventism.
I spent a few weekends with some other Christians, and it was such a contrast. They did not have to inspect every single food. If they did not want to eat something they just went past it, no big deal.
Some SDA’s seem to think that Jesus only ate fish, forgetting that he grew up Jewish,and partook of the passover lamb and all the other sacrifices that went along with being Jewish. Some also think that he did not have the “spirit of Prophecy” to inform him that he should not eat fish.
God himself, having to wait on Ellen White to tell him that what he made and gave to humans to eat ,was going to prevent him from being “translated?” Wow! They must know a different Jesus than the one the bible talks about!
Seventh-day Adventists like to tell us that they don’t believe that one can eat his way into heaven, but they quickly add that one can definitely eat his way out of it (smile). Amazing word play!
Seventh-day Adventists like to tell us that they don’t believe that one can eat his way into heaven, but they quickly add that one can definitely eat his way out of it (smile). Amazing word play!
Dennis Fischer
That’s great Dennis.
It also is true that being a vegetarian, and depriving oneself of good tasting food and wine will not extend one’s life, but this life will certainly SEEM longer.
Any sensible diet along with adequate rest, exercise, and spiritual refreshment will result in our lives lasting as long as God has willed our days to be. He is sovereign and in ultimate control.
I recently spent some time with some SDA relatives and friends, and what amazed me is how many things they refused to eat. It is so stark, now that I am no longer closely connected to Adventism.
I spent a few weekends with some other Christians, and it was such a contrast. They did not have to inspect every single food. If they did not want to eat something they just went past it, no big deal.
Some SDA’s seem to think that Jesus only ate fish, forgetting that he grew up Jewish,and partook of the passover lamb and all the other sacrifices that went along with being Jewish. Some also think that he did not have the “spirit of Prophecy” to inform him that he should not eat fish.
God himself, having to wait on Ellen White to tell him that what he made and gave to humans to eat ,was going to prevent him from being “translated?” Wow! They must know a different Jesus than the one the bible talks about!
Jesus is really all we need.
While in no way does Ellen White represent what those in the church believes .... she did have this to say about those wanting to go to heaven:
“Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven.” CD 355
I recently spent some time with some SDA relatives and friends, and what amazed me is how many things they refused to eat. It is so stark, now that I am no longer closely connected to Adventism.
I spent a few weekends with some other Christians, and it was such a contrast. They did not have to inspect every single food. If they did not want to eat something they just went past it, no big deal.
Some SDA’s seem to think that Jesus only ate fish, forgetting that he grew up Jewish,and partook of the passover lamb and all the other sacrifices that went along with being Jewish. Some also think that he did not have the “spirit of Prophecy” to inform him that he should not eat fish.
God himself, having to wait on Ellen White to tell him that what he made and gave to humans to eat ,was going to prevent him from being “translated?” Wow! They must know a different Jesus than the one the bible talks about!
Jesus is really all we need.
While in no way does Ellen White represent what those in the church believes .... she did have this to say about those wanting to go to heaven:
“Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven.” CD 355
GH,
Now I am really puzzled about what you believe.
What do technicalities like how food is prepared have to do with whether one is prepared for translation?
What do technicalities like how food is prepared have to do with whether one is prepared for translation?
Stan
Stan,
i think you’re not far off from learning that GH is whatever he wants to be, exhibiting a chameleonic behavior according to the immediate interest he has. Some time ago, on this thread, you asked himself if he’s saved, and after an emotional answer from him, Dennis told him that his belief is not in harmony with what the SDA Church believes.
At this point, his immediate interest was to prove that he’s a true adventist, and consequently he clarified his position, that his saved status is applying only to the present time, not to the future, which indeed is the true Adventist position regarding the gospel and the assurance of salvation. For the moment, he saved his face and proved himself a true adventist.
But once this objective attained, my next post challenged his assertion that he believes the same message of the gospel like we believe. I told him that the gospel we believe offers assurance of salvation not only in the present, but also in the future, on the basis of the finished work of atonement accomplished by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on the cross. GH immediate concern was to appear as believing the same gospel like we believe, in order to discredit our criticism of the SDA Church, because, if the SDA Church believes like we believe regarding the gospel and salvation, our opposition to the SDA Church on this matter is unreasonable. Consequently, GH replied to my post saying that I “accurately described what it means to be saved”, no matter how different my understanding of being saved, present and future, is different from his understanding of being saved, only for the present, with a question mark regarding the future. To the undiscerning reader, he posed as believing the same gospel we believe in order to discredit our opposition to his beloved mother church, but when the immediate interest is to pose as a true adventist, he will define his position as a saved person according to Adventist standards.
In the light of GH repeated accusation that we are lying about what SDA Church believes and teaches regarding the gospel, I hope the lurkers will understand who’s telling the truth in this situation.
