I’m not sure this is the right place to post this, but I would like to request prayer for my mom (age 88) who is struggling to realize freedom in Jesus after spending her life as an SDA. I was raised as an Adventist (third generation SDA) - attended SDA schools through college, and worked in denominational employment until my mid-forties. In the late 1980’s when our kids were teenagers, they began questioning many of the SDA beliefs - Why can’t I get my ears pierced? Where does the bible say we shouldn’t wear jewelry? Why can’t I go to the football game with my friends on Friday night? Why can’t I take ballet lessons? Why is it OK on Sabbath to wade up to my ankles, but I can’t actually dive into the water and swim? And on and on.
I became disillusioned when I found I couldn’t locate scriptural references for most of our SDA traditions and beliefs. About that same time I read a book about a young female employee who was treated inequitably by Neil Wilson and the powers-that-be at the GC (It struck a chord with me as a HR Administrator), as well as the book, The White Lie. At any rate, after some years of no church attendance anywhere (Where oh where does one go after leaving the SDA church???? After all, Sunday churches are “Satan’s ground!"), my husband and I began to study the Bible for ourselves and soon found that in good conscience we could no longer be a part of Adventism and all that it entails and stands for.
A couple of years ago my younger brother was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. He just passed away this past March. My mom, sister and I were talking about my brother the other day, and we mentioned something he used to do that may not have been the best choice regarding his taxes. My brother died with a full understanding of The Gospel. But my mom became very disturbed saying, “I certainly hope he remembered to ask forgiveness for that before he died. I so want him to be in heaven!” It’s the old E.G. White thing about our biggest worry being that we had left one sin unconfessed which would keep us out of the kingdom (that one sin that Jesus DIDN’T die for on the cross, I guess - tongue in cheek).
Please pray for my mom, and all SDA’s, that the veil of misunderstanding and misinformation that we were taught can be lifted and the truth of freedom in Jesus (there is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION...") can be realized and enjoyed.
I’ll pray. My mom and dad are long time dead, I wished I could do more for them. Take courage that your mom is still alive, you’re in a better position than mine, and I can guess, many others.. God is working by leading people to the realization that they are sinners in his sight. That sometimes takes a long time especially when people were scared by the leaders to think that they are hearing the true gospel which is no gospel at all and had been insulated again the true gospel with the accusation of “cheap grace.” That distrust was deeply instilled in their mind and soul, but God is God. He never fails to rescue a sinner with the gospel.
Welcome Grammy J! I will pray for your mother as well. I’m new to this site also, but I hope that you will find encouragement from your brothers and sisters in Christ here. Thank you for sharing your testimony with us. What an amazing testament to the grace of God! May our sovereign God bless you and keep you.
Welcome Grammy! Thanks for sharing your burden to see your Adventist family members know the freedom they have in Jesus Christ—freedom to really know that there is therefore NOW no condemnation for those who are in him (Romans 8:1). If we are left to remember the unconfessed sins in our life before being “fit for heaven”, nobody would end up there. Thankfully our Savior died for even the sins we cannot remember having committed and for all of the sins of omission we commit each day.
You are right, if there is a sin that will keep us out of heaven after having been born again by the Holy Spirit, the implication is that Jesus’ blood is unable to cover it. Some people think Jesus’ blood is able to cover sin, but only if applied it to the specific sin in prayer. Either way, Jesus’ role in our salvation is diminished and WE end up as the masters of our own salvation, when that role belongs to HIM.
A hearty welcome, Grammy J! Oh, the needless guilt we used to bear! Adventists love to tell the story about the colporteur who didn’t visit the last house on the block before the man committed suicide. Although our sovereign God uses us in many ways to spread the gospel, no one will ever be lost because of you and me. Truly, “salvation is of the Lord” (Jonah 2:9). What an awesome and just God we serve!
Charles Spurgeon rightly stated:
The Lord must have loved me before I was born, or else He would not have seen anything in me to love afterwards.
I am praying for your loved one. Indeed, we serve a prayer-answering God!
Please pray for my mom, and all SDA’s, that the veil of misunderstanding and misinformation that we were taught can be lifted and the truth of freedom in Jesus (there is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION...") can be realized and enjoyed.
Please pray for my mom, and all SDA’s, that the veil of misunderstanding and misinformation that we were taught can be lifted and the truth of freedom in Jesus (there is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION...") can be realized and enjoyed.
Thank you for your prayers!
James 4:3
Do you really consider Grammy J’s prayer to be a selfish, sinful desire? More importantly, what does God say about wanting our loved ones to find their complete joy and satisfaction in Christ’s finished atoning work on the cross? Is there something sinful in that desire? If you think so, is your opinion scriptural?
Please pray for my mom, and all SDA’s, that the veil of misunderstanding and misinformation that we were taught can be lifted and the truth of freedom in Jesus (there is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION...") can be realized and enjoyed.
Thank you for your prayers!
James 4:3
Do you really consider Grammy J’s prayer to be a selfish, sinful desire? More importantly, what does God say about wanting our loved ones to find their complete joy and satisfaction in Christ’s finished atoning work on the cross? Is there something sinful in that desire? If you think so, is your opinion scriptural?
Respectfully,
Nate
God; I thank thee that I am not as this Adventist is, the Anti-Adventist prayed loudly. But the Adventist would not so much as lift her eyes to heaven; but pleaded in her heart, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner.’
The Searcher of hearts will look down on both people, and He will discern the value of both prayers. Thank God our Jesus does not look on the outward appearance; He does not judge, as we would judge. The self-righteous prayer will always go ‘unanswered.’
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get. 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, God, be merciful to me, a sinner! 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.
What should be noted here is that the Pharisee didn’t take the credit for his inward moral and religious righteousness. As a semi-Pelagian, he thanked God for working all of that into him. Yet it was the one who acknowledged his utter spiritual bankruptcy and threw himself on God’s mercy alone that went down to his house justifiied, rather than the other.
God; I thank thee that I am not as this Adventist is, the Anti-Adventist prayed loudly. But the Adventist would not so much as lift her eyes to heaven; but pleaded in her heart, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner.’
That’s interesting, I haven’t read this version of scripture where all those counted righteous are called “Adventist” and all those who are unrighteous are called “Anti-Adventist.” Rather, when I read the Scriptures, I find things like this: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” (Romans 3:10-12) Do you really believe Jesus’ point in the parable is that Adventists are repentant while Anti-Adventists (so-called, even though we have all been Adventists for the majority of our lives) are self-righteous? This is called eisegesis, rather than exegesis.
The self-righteous prayer…
So, you judge Grammy J’s prayer to be self-righteous, right after declaring this:
He does not judge, as we would judge.
I’m glad you acknowledge that God does not judge as we would judge, since the Scriptures very clearly teach that we are to desire complete satisfaction in Christ for our family and loved ones, just as Grammy J does and just as Paul does for his kinsmen in Romans 9:1-3. If Grammy J’s mom is trying to hold onto something that would supposedly commend her to God (being “Adventist” rather than “Anti-Adventist”, or not wearing jewelry, or going to church on a certain day and labeling all other Christ-followers “Sunday-keepers”, etc.), shouldn’t Grammy J pray that her mom would let go of that thing and cast herself on God’s mercy alone, by faith in Christ alone? If Grammy J’s mom is holding on to one of those things, and she were to let go of it and trust in Christ alone for her salvation, that would advance the kingdom of God (the real point of James 4), would it not?
I pray for you Protestant 101 that you would not see former Adventists as your enemies, but rather that you would embrace them with open arms as brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, if indeed we are all truly in Him (I don’t know your heart, and you don’t know mine). Let’s discuss the differences in our theology based on the Scriptures, instead of judging the worthiness of other people’s prayers.
God; I thank thee that I am not as this Adventist is, the Anti-Adventist prayed loudly. But the Adventist would not so much as lift her eyes to heaven; but pleaded in her heart, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner.’
I’m glad you acknowledge that God does not judge as we would judge, since the Scriptures very clearly teach that we are to desire complete satisfaction in Christ for our family and loved ones, just as Grammy J does and just as Paul does for his kinsmen in Romans 9:1-3. If Grammy J’s mom is trying to hold onto something that would supposedly commend her to God (being “Adventist” rather than “Anti-Adventist”, or not wearing jewelry, or going to church on a certain day and labeling all other Christ-followers “Sunday-keepers”, etc.), shouldn’t Grammy J pray that her mom would let go of that thing and cast herself on God’s mercy alone, by faith in Christ alone? If Grammy J’s mom is holding on to one of those things, and she were to let go of it and trust in Christ alone for her salvation, that would advance the kingdom of God (the real point of James 4), would it not?
I pray for you Protestant 101 that you would not see former Adventists as your enemies, but rather that you would embrace them with open arms as brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, if indeed we are all truly in Him (I don’t know your heart, and you don’t know mine). Let’s discuss the differences in our theology based on the Scriptures, instead of judging the worthiness of other people’s prayers.
Respectfully,
Nate
Grammy J’s Mom is being unfairly judged here; being denoted as someone who does not trust in Christ alone for her salvation and for her peace & happiness. And solely because she is an Adventist.
Is it wrong to remind Grammy J to not judge her Mom? Is it wrong to remind others to examine themselves, that they do not follow into the legalistic trap of judging someone’s spiritual standing, just because of the denomination they belong to?
With someone that age; there are many other possibilities that could be making her feel down right now. In my years of nursing practice; I learned much about the elderly, and why they sometimes get like this. To just say it is because she is Adventist is wrong on so many counts.
But the thrust of the replies here so far is that because she is Adventist; she must not be trusting in Christ. If you can’t see that the scripture parable I referred to above was only intended to symbolically portray and warn against self-righteous prayers, then you haven’t even been trying to listen. I am not stupid, just because I am an Adventist; I know full well that that scripture is not literally referring to Adventists versus Anti-Adventists. But I also know, as you should know too; that there is a point in this passage that Jesus still speaks to us today. I feel I made the point very well here.
Grammy J’s Mom is being unfairly judged here; being denoted as someone who does not trust in Christ alone for her salvation and for her peace & happiness. And solely because she is an Adventist.
Is it wrong to remind Grammy J to not judge her Mom? Is it wrong to remind others to examine themselves, that they do not follow into the legalistic trap of judging someone’s spiritual standing, just because of the denomination they belong to?
With someone that age; there are many other possibilities that could be making her feel down right now. In my years of nursing practice; I learned much about the elderly, and why they sometimes get like this. To just say it is because she is Adventist is wrong on so many counts.
But the thrust of the replies here so far is that because she is Adventist; she must not be trusting in Christ. If you can’t see that the scripture parable I referred to above was only intended to symbolically portray and warn against self-righteous prayers, then you haven’t even been trying to listen. I am not stupid, just because I am an Adventist; I know full well that that scripture is not literally referring to Adventists versus Anti-Adventists. But I also know, as you should know too; that there is a point in this passage that Jesus still speaks to us today. I feel I made the point very well here.
Actually, her mom made it clear that she does not believe in the Gospel:
But my mom became very disturbed saying, “I certainly hope he remembered to ask forgiveness for that before he died. I so want him to be in heaven!”
Grammy J’s Mom is being unfairly judged here; being denoted as someone who does not trust in Christ alone for her salvation and for her peace & happiness. And solely because she is an Adventist.
Is it wrong to remind Grammy J to not judge her Mom? Is it wrong to remind others to examine themselves, that they do not follow into the legalistic trap of judging someone’s spiritual standing, just because of the denomination they belong to?
With someone that age; there are many other possibilities that could be making her feel down right now. In my years of nursing practice; I learned much about the elderly, and why they sometimes get like this. To just say it is because she is Adventist is wrong on so many counts.
But the thrust of the replies here so far is that because she is Adventist; she must not be trusting in Christ. If you can’t see that the scripture parable I referred to above was only intended to symbolically portray and warn against self-righteous prayers, then you haven’t even been trying to listen. I am not stupid, just because I am an Adventist; I know full well that that scripture is not literally referring to Adventists versus Anti-Adventists. But I also know, as you should know too; that there is a point in this passage that Jesus still speaks to us today. I feel I made the point very well here.
Actually, her mom made it clear that she does not believe in the Gospel:
But my mom became very disturbed saying, “I certainly hope he remembered to ask forgiveness for that before he died. I so want him to be in heaven!”
Jeremy
I can see where you are trying to go with this; however, it does not take away from any points I made above. And, if we take what you and others here are intimating to it’s fullest stretch; no one will be in heaven, unless they believe exactly as you do - unless they are Calvinist adherents, according to you, they “do not have the gospel,” and therefore, how can they be “saved?” I’d sure like to see you prove all that by the Bible alone, without Calvin’s influence.
And as a second thought; forgiveness is a part of the gospel. It is not “wrong” to wonder if someone was forgiven before they died. Having worked for many years in palliative care, I would have to say that posters here have a very limited view on all the processes, and needs that arise when one grows old, infirm, or is terminally ill. Spiritually, it is unlikely that denominational distinctives or doctrines held in common would be affecting Gammy J’s Mom and her “happiness.” It is not even close to being Biblical to so curtly dismiss her problems away with “it’s all because she is an Adventist.” The real cause of her trials could be missed with such a bounded proclamation of bigotry.
