My answer really does require a lengthy response, but since I also have a sermon to finish for this weekend (A Christ centered one devoid of ellen white quotes I would point out) I would summarize with this, my main points of difference with adventism are in regards to Ellen White and the investigative judgment.  While I realize there have been mistakes I have found within Adventism many true Christians as well.  The more true Christians that leave the church then the worse off it will be, If there is to be any hope of the church moving past some of these theological issues then there needs be more of those people in the church who are willing to question but also to realize that discussing and eventually moving past these issues is a growth process that will take time.  If I live my life with Jesus Christ at the center of my beliefs and encourage those in the churches that I work in and with to do the same then my conscience is clear.

Hi Chiapet,

I apologize if my initial response came off sounding accusatory, or in anyway judgmental. I typed out a long response last night but through my pushing a wrong button, it has been lost and only the cyber gods will know how insightful, profound and astute it was. When those things happen, I think only a couple of nasty thoughts and then figure it wasn’t meant to be, and probably for good reason.

I guess I wrongly assumed that you would be comfortable calling Ellen White a prophetess, given the fact that this admonition is one of the fundamental beliefs of the SDa church, of which you stated you were a in a position of Adventist Pastoral leadership, albeit at a lower level.

I guess I also assumed that someone on the payroll, in leadership, would also be in agreement with the traditional view of the Investigative judgment as reitterated and affirmed by the GC president Jan Paulsen, and also still considered a/the foundational cornerstone of the Adventist theological paradigm.

I am truly heartened to hear you say that your salvation rests solely on your acceptance of Christ’s gift through His sacrifice at calvary that will cover all your sins.

Given the above belief, I am curious as to whether you consider “the Sabbath” to be the seal of God, and whether you preach that it will be an end time salvation issue as is continuing to be taught and endorsed officially by the SDA church? This I feel is also one of the foundational beliefs that a professed Adventist, and especially one in leadership would hold steadfastly too.

If you profess the above, do you see that in anyway being contradictory to your stated belief in salvation by Christ alone?

If you do not feel that the “Sabbath” is a salvation issue, if you do not profess Ellen White as a prophet as describe by the White Estate, and the GC, if you do not endorse the official and traditional view of the Investigative Judgment, why are you a Seventh-day Adventist, let alone a Seventh-day Adventist Minister?

I am curious if you believe that the SDA church is God’s end time Remnant Church, as is taught in all SDA Revelation Seminars and as confirmed and taught by Ellen White? If you do, on what basis do you make this claim, given the above discussion?

Although I was never an Adventist Minister, I was an Adventist for 45 year, with 16 of those years being schooled in Adventist institutions.

Once I recognized I could not profess or endorse the above doctrines of the church, I realized I could no longer be truthful and authentic if I continued to even pretend I was something I was not.

Thank you Chiapet for your comment. Please understand we are all here to learn and grow. This is my continued prayer for you as well.

Randy

Chia, I want to press you a little bit on what you said here. It sounds like you are saying that those Adventists who hold Ellen White as a prophetess are “unbalanced”, and also that it is possible to be an Adventist in good standing without believing this. Many transitioning and former Adventists would raise their eyebrows at this, because as you are well aware, the church has an official position on Ellen White’s prophetic authority:

What I essentially meant by that Is I do and always have held issue with the way Ellen White has been elevated in the Adventist church.  Perhaps unbalanced was too strong a word, they have essentially elevated her to a level with scripture which despite the the fact that the church leadership does support the view you mentioned I at least give them credit in stating that we do not equate her writings with the bible.  This statement is found in many documents by the biblical research institute.  I would say at the heart of this issue is that for a while in the church before we started questioning, developing and solidifying our view on Ellen White there were many that did not have a proper view of her or her writings.  Unfortunately by this time some of these views were so ingrained into the church as a whole that it is an uphill battle for many to see the degree to which Ellen White has elevated beyond which she should have been.  I would say there are many Adventists in good standing who hold to a much more moderate view of Ellen White, they also however realize that a change, and moving out from under her influence is not something that will happen overnight.  Essentially I would theorize that there are many of us who would choose to work within our context while not subscribing to the infallible interpreter view.  I have been in many churches, especially churches with a predominatly younger crowd, most notably the churces located in our college towns, where hardly a mention of Ellen White is heard.

Hi Chiapet,

I apologize if my initial response came of sounding accusatory or in anyway judgmental. I typed out a long response last night but through my pushing a wrong button, it has been lost and only the cyber gods will know how insightful, profound and astute it was. When those things happen, I think only a couple of nasty thoughts and then figure it wasn’t meant to be, and probably for good reason.

I guess I wrongly assumed that you would be comfortable calling Ellen White a prophetess, given the fact that this admonition is one of the fundamental beliefs of the SDa church, of which you stated you were a in a position of Adventist Pastoral leadership, albeit at a lower level.

I guess I also assumed that someone on the payroll, in leadership, would also be in agreement with the traditional view of the Investigative judgment as reitterated and affirmed by the GC president Jan Paulsen, and also still considered a/the foundational cornerstone of the Adventist theological paradigm.

I am truly heartened to hear you say that your salvation rests solely on your acceptance of Christ’s gift through His sacrifice at calvary that will cover all your sins.

Given the above belief, I am curious as to whether you consider “the Sabbath” to be the seal of God, and whether you preach that it will be an end time salvation issue as is continuing to be taught and endorsed officially by the SDA church? This I feel is also one of the foundational beliefs that a professed Adventist, and especially one in leadership would hold steadfastly too.

If you profess the above, do you see that in anyway being contradictory to your stated belief in salvation by Christ alone?

If you do not feel that the “Sabbath” is a salvation issue, if you do not profess Ellen White as a prophet as describe by the White Estate, and the GC, if you do not endorse the official and traditional view of the Investigative Judgment, why are you a Seventh-day Adventist, let alone a Seventh-day Adventist Minister?

I am curious if you believe that the SDA church is God’s end time Remnant Church, as is taught in all SDA Revelation Seminars and as confirmed and taught by Ellen White? If you do, on what basis do you make this claim, given the above discussion?

Although I was never an Adventist Minister, I was an Adventist for 45 year, with 16 of those years being schooled in Adventist institutions.

Once I recognized I could not profess or endorse the above doctrines of the church, I realized I could no longer be truthful and authentic if I continued to even pretend I was something I was not.

Thank you Chiapet for your comment. Please understand we are all here to learn and grow. This is my continued prayer for you as well.

Randy

I thank for our questions and they are all areas in which I have been questioning myself as of lately.  I do differ in adventism in a few key areas, most notably Ellen White, the investigative judgment, the mark of the beast, and the remnant church.  Before I undertake to answer to cover those areas I will give a brief summary of my background so you can understand more fully where I am coming from.  I was brought up in a very staunch ultra conservative SDA church one in which Ellen White was used in ways that were quite off balance, this led me to have some very strong anti Ellen White sentiments.  I also did not grow up with a proper understnading of the Gospel given that one of the great weeknesses of the SDA church is the lack of keeping Jesus Christ at the center of our beliefs. I grew up hearing things from people (when talking about “witnessing") like ‘I was able to share with them the truth of the mark of the beast” or other SDA distinctives.  This emphasis on doctrine and truth over Jesus has always bothered me and still does to this day.  I did not have a proper understanding of the Gospel until my years in an SDA private high school.  Which regardless of our feelings on SDA I can definitely say that I would not be in a church at all if I did not attend that school.  At the time my life was falling apart, and I was on the verge of making a decision for or against Christ My attendance at this school was the tunring point in my understanding of the Gospel, and my dedication to Jesus Christ, so God can work through any institution regardless of its problems.  Anyways from there I went on to an SDA collegefor one year, took a year off after that at which point I felt God calling me into ministry.  After a year off examining this possibiltiy I transfered to another SDA college with my major as theology.  I actually just recently graduated and got a job where I essentially have the role of a pastoral assistant in the area of evangelism, and I am moved around the state to get churches ready for evangelistic programs.  A few additional comments; my strong feelings against Ellen White were partially softened by my realizing that some of her books do have value in the area of devotionals, but I still retained my questions about the position most in the church elevated her to.  I have also met several true and sincere Christians in this denomination especially my bible teacher in high school and some of my theology professors in college which greatly helped my Christian walk. 
Anyways from that background I know find myself in a mode of questioning, most notably with the four ideas mentioned above.  I will say I am still a sabbatarian, but would hesitate to take it as far as most SDA’s have.  I believe the concept of the sabbath is important (essentially God saying, take a day and chill, and spend it with me), and that the commandment is specific about the day, but in my most recent thinking I have looked at it as not my worshiping on that day that saves me but because God has saved me my regenerated nature automatically wants to spend time with my God on that day as well as every other day of the week.  I will admit there are a number of weeknesses with the way SDA’s “keep” the sabbath.  “oh, its sundown, I guess I can put that CD back in,” to which my question would be, “if you had to take it out in the first place, what does that say??” Also nowehere does the bible say “thou shalt have a worship service on saturday” it says keep the day holy which if I spend the day hiking, swimming, or just taking a break and communing with God I am still following the commandment but not because I think I have to in order to be saved but because I want to spend a day with my savior Jesus Christ.  Anyways thats a whole other discussion. 
Now for the other areas of difference. 
Ellen White - I would much rather see Ellen White as someone who was heavily involved in the founding of the church but also made some mistakes.  She is by no means infallible. 
The investigative judgment - simply put my stance on this is that there is a judgment, the bible is clear on that, but since my sins have been covered, and I have the imputed righteousness of Christ, I have no concern in the Judgment because every one of my sins has been covered by the death of Jesus.
The mark of the beast From my study of revelation what I believe is really at the heart of this issue is worship, are you worshiping God or worshiping satan, and essentially rebellion against God is what the issue is, and any commandment could be what is causing someone (someone who has not surrendured their life to christ and is not covered by his blood) to be in a state of rebellion. 
The remnant church I have alot of Issues with this, what I always see at the heart of this is the concept of “the visible church” and “the invisible church.” One being the visible church organizations on earth and the other being all of Christs true followers.  In my mind I see the invisible church concept as being the same as the remnant, so the remnant is not an earthly organization but a gathering of all the true followers of Jesus Christ.
That is essentially a summary of where my theology differs.

ChiaPet,

Thank you so much for your forthright and honest explanations.  I have many more questions and hope for more discussion, but right now on the westcoast its lunch time, and I promised my staff its on me today.

I appreciate your candor and look forward to more.

Peace my brother,

Randy

Chiapet, thanks for sharing more about yourself above. I find myself agreeing with you on many points, most importantly the gospel. You said that you were covered by the imputed righteousness of Christ, and I could not agree more. I never heard about imputation while I was in the Adventist church, but I must admit that many Christians are confused by the concept of receiving Christ’s righteousness in exchange for their sin. This bible doctrine was recovered during the Protestant Reformation, but it remains obscure to many supposed inheritors of the Reformation to this day.

Ellen White was a big stumbling block to me in my exodus away from Adventism. I simply could not construct a coherent Adventist belief system that left her out of the picture or even relegated to the role of a devotional writer. As you are well aware, she claims a much higher authority for herself, e.g. “more than a prophet” and the church continues to labor under the weight of these claims. Unfortunately, I don’t see this changing anytime soon.

I totally agree with what you said about the remnant church being the “invisible” church, made up of the body of believers from the entire world who have been born again and are hidden in the righteousness of Christ.

Chiapet, I won’t presume to tell you what to do given your present love for Jesus and his gospel. To my thinking, you are an evangelist among people who need to hear the gospel, freed from the layers of extra-biblical doctrines and “prophecies” that the church has accumulated over the years. I hope you are able to share the good news with as many Adventists as possible.

There’s more to say on the Sabbath issue, but this is a big discussion I can’t broach right now. Suffice it to say that, in the face of our Holy God, all of us will be exposed for the law-breakers we really are. But fortunately God does not make our salvation contingent on our ability to keep law, but solely on the merits of Jesus—a gift He gives to us by faith. If God kept a record of sins, as David says, “who could stand?” (Psalm 130:3). This does not mean we continue to sin willfully, and this is the “rub” of the Sabbath argument. We can explore this more if you would like.

Chiapet, I look forward to hearing more from you and I appreciate your willingness to share some of your thoughts and concerns with us here.

In Christ,

Greg