This video composed by Lane Chaplin was made in response to being “tagged” on YouTube to share five facts about himself. Instead of posting the usual mundane personal trivia, he laid bare the truth about himself as seen through the lens of Scripture. These facts are not really unique to Lane but are shared by all who are convicted by the depth of their depravity and the magnitude of God’s gracious forgiveness. Please watch this video and ask yourself whether God’s grace is your most precious possession, and if it is not, please prayerfully consider the magnitude of your sin and your desperate need for what the apostle Paul called “the washing of regeneration and renewal” (Titus 3:4-8).

Link to video.

Administrator - 16 February 2008 04:17 PM

Please watch this video and ask yourself whether God’s grace is your most precious possession, and if it is not, please prayerfully consider the magnitude of your sin and your desperate need for what the apostle Paul called “the washing of regeneration and renewal” (Titus 3:4-8).

Amen to that, Greg.  Without an understanding of our depravity and how and where we stand before a holy God because of it, it’s impossible to see grace for what it is. 

I heard an example recently that illustrates this.  If you’ve ever gone looking for a diamond ring the way the jeweler usually shows it isn’t just by pulling it out of the box and handing it over, but by putting it against some kind of a dark, velvet backdrop to really make the briliance of the stone pop right out at you.  Our sin is like that dark backdrop that shows us the true brilliance of grace and it’s dazzling.  But without an appreciation for our sinful condition, grace just isn’t as dazzling.

Aaron, that’s a great way to think about grace.

Here’s a quote along those lines from J.C. Ryle: “The man who does not glory in the gospel can surely know little of the plague of sin that is within him.”

Greg

Thanks, this certainly was timely.

Yesterday I suffered through an Adventist lesson ‘study’ on discipleship presented by the head elder, a totally works oriented presentation and response from the members. When we got home I went on a ‘rant’ about how can a whole group of people fail to recognize the reality of their sinfulness and miss the wonder of God’s grace and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The next time I’m drafted to do the bulletin I’m going to include this as an insert.

“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.” 1Co 16:23

“Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” Romans 15:13

John Douglas

JONVIL - 17 February 2008 04:33 AM

Thanks, this certainly was timely.

Yesterday I suffered through an Adventist lesson ‘study’ on discipleship presented by the head elder, a totally works oriented presentation and response from the members. When we got home I went on a ‘rant’ about how can a whole group of people fail to recognize the reality of their sinfulness and miss the wonder of God’s grace and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

The next time I’m drafted to do the bulletin I’m going to include this as an insert.

“The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you.” 1Co 16:23

“Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” Romans 15:13

John Douglas

Jonvil,

I don’t know your heart or motives or even your situation so forgive me if I am overstepping my boundaries, and no offense, but why in the world are you even still attending an SDA church? If you truly feel the way you do as your comments on this forum show, don’t you think it is a bit hypocritical to subject yourself to what you obviously are disgruntled with and possibly giving everyone around you the impression that you are a dedicated and happy SDA? Do you like the church and want to be a reformer and help move it progressively? To me, your posts here about what is wrong and your comments about your church attendance in Sabbath schools makes you sound like a ‘former SDA spy’ or something, there to make everyone think you are an SDA while you work behind the scenes.

I guess maybe knowing your history and motives might shed some light for me.

Sorry Greg for hijacking this thread.

guibox - 17 February 2008 08:18 AM

I don’t know your heart or motives or even your situation so forgive me if I am overstepping my boundaries, and no offense, but why in the world are you even still attending an SDA church? If you truly feel the way you do as your comments on this forum show, don’t you think it is a bit hypocritical to subject yourself to what you obviously are disgruntled with and possibly giving everyone around you the impression that you are a dedicated and happy SDA? Do you like the church and want to be a reformer and help move it progressively? To me, your posts here about what is wrong and your comments about your church attendance in Sabbath schools makes you sound like a ‘former SDA spy’ or something, there to make everyone think you are an SDA while you work behind the scenes.

I guess maybe knowing your history and motives might shed some light for me.

Sorry Greg for hijacking this thread.

From a certain perspective this is quite funny, but it is interesting how it develops in current practice as a way to discredit somebody with whom you disagree no matter how reasonable his views are.

When I was still involved in the SDA church, at the choir, my scholar adventist friend (also a professor at the theological seminary) who is an elder at SDA church I participated, accused me of being a hypocrite because I sung adventists songs which had adventist theology which I don’t believe. Point well taken, I resign my position at the choir, followed by letters of resignation. Since I was no longer interested in the church life, neither of Sabbath School, neither of other public activity, they quietly ignored my letter, and kept my name on the church’s rolls against my will.

Consequently I asked them to drop my name, because, according to their own standard, it is a sign of hypocrisy from them to give the impression to others that I’m still adventist when I’m not. The answer I received from the same elder was that I’m the one who parted way with them, isolating myself, ceasing to participate at the choir, etc. when they always thought about me as a son of their church, not as a stranger. Imagine, the same person, who accused me of hypocrisy by participating at the choir, now excused the church for a similar behavior accusing me of isolating myself when they had all their hands clean

I can’t qualify this behavior, and seeing Guibox’s post I remembered this situation. This shows that for an adventist, if someone is criticizing the church from without the church, he’s discredited because he’s no longer a member of the SDA, and when he criticizes the church from within, he’s told that he’s a hypocrite and he should leave the church and clarify his position. But when the guy takes courage and asks for membership removal, he’s kept on the church rolls, against his will, as this behavior is correct.

And this means that any criticism of the church is dismissed by an ad hominem argument. Instead of dealing with the objective facts, the person is indicted on bases of personal character. If you’re no longer adventist and criticize the adventist doctrines, you’re disgruntled, if you’re still attending the SDA church and criticize these doctrines from within , you’re a hypocrite.

This destroys any base of objective thinking, and shows how this cultic, no rooted in objective facts mindset, predominates in the church, even in those who consider themselves progressives.

Gabriel

Guibox,

Do you have any comment about the video?

There was no message of any gospel of grace when I was in the SDA church.

If John can be a shining light to the marvelous grace of God, then, so much the better.

Sola Gratia,

Stan

Stan Ermshar - 17 February 2008 10:15 AM

Guibox,

Do you have any comment about the video?

There was no message of any gospel of grace when I was in the SDA church.

If John can be a shining light to the marvelous grace of God, then, so much the better.

Sola Gratia,

Stan

Stan,

Regarding the portion I bolded above in your previous statement, this was mostly true for me, as well, at least in the manner by which I’m pretty sure you’re speaking.  The word “grace” was used frequently but almost always it was used in the sense of being some kind of divine jumpstart that enables us to keep the law well enough to be found acceptable before God.  And the really good news was that we, as Adventists, had not only that enabling power but the final piece of the puzzle that meant we were really keeping the law which of course was the Sabbath.  Surely others may have thought they were law-keepers but they really weren’t because they weren’t keeping the 4th commandment and instead were honoring man’s Sabbath or Rome’s Sabbath and were wandering after the beast and not truly following God.  I think that because we felt like we had it all figured out and that we were really keeping the law that it made it nearly impossible to see the true depth of our sin and the hopelessness of our situation that we inherited from Adam.  But no, the truth is that God requires complete perfection to be reconciled to Him because He is holy and a holy God has no choice but to punish that which isn’t because He is perfectly just.  The only way to acheive this is through the imputed righteousness and perfect obedience of Christ by grace through faith.  When I first read Romans 3-5 straight through I was absolutely blown away and utterly humbled into the dust.

Aaron

John, I’m glad this video came along at the right time, and I understand your frustration with the teaching in your SDA church. I hope you get the chance to share the glorious gospel with many of our Adventist brothers and sisters who are not currently hearing it. One of the last opportunities I had to witness to my Adventist family was a children’s story where I was able to share Ephesians 1:13-14.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14 NIV)

Everything about this text runs against the grain of what Adventists are taught, even to this day. They teach that the seal of God is the Sabbath, not the Holy Spirit. They teach that salvation is a future possibility, not a present reality. They teach that man must work to earn and keep his salvation, not that God saves His children in Christ when the gospel is heard and believed.

Guibox, like Stan, I wonder if you have a response to the video I posted. Instead of criticizing John, can you recognize that he might just be a missionary among people who need to hear the gospel?

Gabriel, earlier today I was reading a pamphlet produced by the Christian Reformed Church. The point was made that if someone had questions about the church or even doubts, this was a good thing, because God works through these questions to bring people to himself. Christianity is first and foremost based on the objective truth of Jesus—that he was the Messiah whom the prophets foretold and that the tomb was empty on the third day after his crucifixion. This was the apostle Paul’s point in 1 Corinthians 15. When someone questions the Christian faith, we can rest assured that there are biblical answers.

But in Adventism, the situation is different. There are many “rough edges” that are unexplainable apart from re-defining what it means to be a prophet, for example, or what it means to believe the Scriptures are infallible. What I’ve observed in my own experience as an Adventist and now as a former Adventist is that within Adventism, there is not the same assurance that questioning the teachings of the church will lead to solid answers. Instead, there is fear that the questions may lead away from the church and expose the deep-rooted problems in the denominational foundation, bringing into question the assumption that Adventists are members of God’s remnant denomination/church. So instead of being content to let people ask questions, Adventists will (generally-speaking) begin to push back at those asking the questions as a way of protecting the church’s identity. The way Adventists handled men such as Desmond Ford, D.M. Canright, and Albion Ballenger are striking examples.

If Adventism is God’s remnant church and has the most truth of any professing Christian church, they should welcome the questions and encourage an examination of their unique truth claims. When we see them taking the opposite approach, it is a big red flag that something is not right.  The truth will hold up under investigation, but error will not.

Aaron, I heard the Lutheran theologian Rod Rosenbladt last night make almost the exact point you are making about grace, but applied to the Roman Catholic system. Catholics do not deny grace, they simply believe grace is a measure by which their commandment-keeping can be jump-started. The believer is not judged by the grace extended by God, but by the works perfected in them as a response to God’s enabling grace. Thus, salvation is a result of the cooperative effort between God and man. This is in stark contrast to the apostle Paul’s words in Romans, describing the way in which the sinner is reconciled to God: So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. (Romans 11:5-6)

What a different church Adventists would have if they affirmed the biblical definition of God’s remnant, not using this term to protect their denominational identity, but affirming that God’s remnant is composed of all whom He has chosen by grace.

Greg

guibox
I don’t know your heart or motives or even your situation so forgive me if I am overstepping my boundaries, and no offense, but why in the world are you even still attending an SDA church? If you truly feel the way you do as your comments on this forum show, don’t you think it is a bit hypocritical to subject yourself to what you obviously are disgruntled with and possibly giving everyone around you the impression that you are a dedicated and happy SDA? Do you like the church and want to be a reformer and help move it progressively? To me, your posts here about what is wrong and your comments about your church attendance in Sabbath schools makes you sound like a ‘former SDA spy’ or something, there to make everyone think you are an SDA while you work behind the scenes.

I guess maybe knowing your history and motives might shed some light for me.

Sorry Greg for hijacking this thread.

Guibox, quite honestly, my primary reason for still attending the SDA church is due to my 2nd gen SDA wife. She simply is not ready for me to ‘fall away’ into ‘apostasy’ by ‘leaving the faith’.

‘…make everyone think you are an SDA...’

In that I always identify myself as a Christian, hopefully that’s what they think I am.

I do have a heartfelt desire to share the joy I experience in the absolute assurance of my salvation so, as for ‘working behind the scenes’, I simply present scripture such as

Rom 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Act 2:21 ‘AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Rom 4:2-5 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.  (3) For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” (4) Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.  (5) But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

and leave it to the Holy Spirit work on their hearts.

I do not consider this to be subversive or ‘behind the scenes’.

I pray that I give everyone the impression that I am a dedicated and happy CHRISTIAN!
Rom 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

John Douglas

Greg,
Thanks for posting that link.  I saw myself all through it-a sinner of the largest magnitude.  Even my SDA beliefs did not keep me from sinning.  Looking back, they could not.  Thank God that now I have a God who has rescued me and covered me with His blood.  I cannot claim any perfection or even doing one right thing.  I am a sinner and only because of Jesus Christ do I have any claim to heaven and Jesus gift of salvation through His grace.  I cannot help but say, He is so awesome.
Diana