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Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile? 
Posted: 05 January 2007 06:31 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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Dr. Harry Ironside was a well-known evangelist and preacher at the Moody Memorial Church from 1930-48.  His essay entitled “Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile?” tackles the topic of pointing out doctrinal errors within the professing Christian church.  Sometimes I catch myself wondering if spending time on exposing error is worthwhile, after all, it’s so much more pleasant to focus on the positive.  In this essay, Dr. Ironside reminds us that it is our duty to “contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3).  Most importantly, he encourages us to be firm on the truth, but to speak the truth in love:  “This does not imply harsh treatment of those entrapped by error quite the opposite. If it be objected that exposure to error necessitates unkind reflection upon others who do not see as we do, our answer is: it has always been the duty of every loyal servant of Christ to warn against any teaching that would make Him less precious or cast reflection upon His finished redemptive work and the all-sufficiency of His present service as our great High Priest and Advocate.” It’s important to speak the truth, but to speak it in a way that does not betray our ultimate aim--to share the good news of the gospel with people who are lost without it.  Dr. Ironside’s biography is also well-worth reading.

Exposing Error: Is It Worthwhile?
by Harry A. Ironside

Objection is often raised even by some sound in the faith regarding the exposure of error as being entirely negative and of no real edification. Of late, the hue and cry has been against any and all negative teaching. But the brethren who assume this attitude forget that a large part of the New Testament, both of the teaching of our blessed Lord Himself and the writings of the apostles, is made up of this very character of ministry--namely, showing the Satanic origin and, therefore, the unsettling results of the propagation of erroneous systems which Peter, in his second epistle, so definitely refers to as “damnable heresies.”

Our Lord prophesied, “Many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.” Within our own day, how many false prophets have risen; and oh, how many are the deceived! Paul predicted, “I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch.” My own observation is that these “grievous wolves,” alone and in packs, are not sparing even the most favoured flocks. Undershepherds in these “perilous times” will do well to note the apostle’s warning: “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers.” It is as important in these days as in Paul’s--in fact, it is increasingly important--to expose the many types of false teaching that, on every hand, abound more and more.

We are called upon to “contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints,” while we hold the truth in love. The faith means the whole body of revealed truth, and to contend for all of God’s truth necessitates some negative teaching. The choice is not left with us. Jude said he preferred a different, a pleasanter theme--"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ” (Jude 3, 4). Paul likewise admonishes us to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Eph. 5:11).

This does not imply harsh treatment of those entrapped by error quite the opposite. If it be objected that exposure to error necessitates unkind reflection upon others who do not see as we do, our answer is: it has always been the duty of every loyal servant of Christ to warn against any teaching that would make Him less precious or cast reflection upon His finished redemptive work and the all-sufficiency of His present service as our great High Priest and Advocate. Every system of teaching can be judged by what it sets forth as to these fundamental truths of the faith. “What think ye of Christ?” is still the true test of every creed. The Christ of the Bible is certainly not the Christ of any false “-ism.” Each of the cults has its hideous caricature of our lovely Lord. Let us who have been redeemed at the cost of His precious blood be “good soldiers of Jesus Christ.” As the battle against the forces of evil waxes ever more hot, we have need for God-given valour.

There is constant temptation to compromise. “Let us go forth therefore unto Him without the camp, bearing His reproach.” It is always right to stand firmly for what God has revealed concerning His blessed Son’s person and work. The “father of lies” deals in half-truths and specializes in most subtle fallacies concerning the Lord Jesus, our sole and sufficient Savior.

Error is like leaven of which we read, “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.” Truth mixed with error is equivalent to all error, except that it is more innocent looking and, therefore, more dangerous. God hates such a mixture! Any error, or any truth-and-error mixture, calls for definite exposure and repudiation. To condone such is to be unfaithful to God and His Word and treacherous to imperiled souls for whom Christ died.

Exposing error is most unpopular work. But from every true standpoint it is worthwhile work. To our Savior, it means that He receives from us, His blood-bought ones, the loyalty that is His due. To ourselves, if we consider “the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt,” it ensures future reward, a thousand-fold. And to souls “caught in the snare of the fowler"-how many of them God only knows-it may mean light and life, abundant and everlasting.

[Dr. Harry Ironside (1876-1951), a godly Fundamentalist author and teacher for many years, served as pastor of Chicago’s Moody Memorial Church from 1930-1948]

Taken from this link

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Where I was going with this is that because we believe the gospel to be true, we should contend earnestly for it, but in a way that reveals our zeal for sharing our faith, not our need to show people how smart or doctrinally-correct we are.  There’s a fine line between reproof and smug self-satisfaction.

I think a good way to avoid the error of self-exalting “doctrinal carpet bombing” is to speak the truth in love (1 Cor 13).

Greg

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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The errors of Adventism are well worth exposing. The Investigative Judgment is a terrible doctrine. Even if some are already saved, believing in the IJ and the strict lifestyle of Ellen will prevent growth and choke out the truth of the word.  Legalism must be exposed no matter where it is found. But any doctrine that diminishes the atonement of Christ is potentially damning. If we don’t expose false teaching we only encourage it. But the manner we should do this in is expressed in 1 Peter 3:15,16.  ‘Speaking the truth in love’.

Stan

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Stan thanks for reminding me about 1 Peter 3:15-16.  As you know I’ve been listening to some of the Brinsmead tapes you loaned me.  I have a hard time understanding how a man who was so able to articulate the gospel and who clearly saw the problems of the sectarian spirit ultimately renounced his faith.  In hearing him, I keep getting the distinct impression that you can be certain of your “rightness,” saying all the right words, yet still not be born again.  It’s almost as if the spirit of being against something takes over and the spirit of humility before a Holy God is missing.

If you read the biography of Harry Ironside above, you’ll find that he was preaching the gospel at an early age and was not born again until later in life.  He recounts being perturbed when the Scottish evangelists Donald Munro and John Smith repeatedly asked him whether he had been born again yet.

I pray this site will be used not to fulfill the need we have in ourselves to be right, but to humbly proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ to those who are eternally lost without it.

Greg

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Greg, you are very wise to point out the thin line between a sincere love of truth (and the resulting desire to expose awful errors) and the need to be right. And it is a line that most of us who have engaged in discussions of doctrinal errors have certainly crossed many times. Because we still have a battle with the flesh, our pride still wins out over our love too much of the time. This is intertwined with the idea about the need for truly understanding the law as a witness against us. Not law is in Torah necessarily, but law as in the standard of righteousness shown to us in Jesus. 

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Here’s a quote from John McArthur I just heard that goes along with exposing error.

“Most it seems, today have a patchwork quilt theology that is a mix and match of all kinds of things. Error is not only visible at the basic primitive levels of theology but at the deeper and more complex levels as well. This should not happen because we have been duly warned. Scripture warns us of doctrines of demons, destructive heresies, myths, perverse teachings, commandments of men, speculations, controversial issues, deceitful spirits, worldly fables, false knowledge, empty philosophies, traditions of men, worldly wisdom and it says that they are all pitfalls for Christians. Jesus said that wolves would come in sheep’s clothing.  Paul said that grievous wolves will enter in not sparing the flock. Paul wrote to Timothy and said, ‘And as the age goes on, evil men will get worse and worse and deception will increase.’ Paul again said there will be doctrines of demons that will lead people astray. To put it mildly, there is a world of chaos and confusion in the church.”

The easiest thing in the world would be to sink into the culture of Christianity without concern for false teachings or the pursuit of truth, but God has warned us to be aware of the problems infecting His church. This does not mean we go looking for heresies to expose, but we should not be timid in standing up for truth even when it makes us uncomfortable.

Greg

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Greg,

That is a great quote from macArthur. He has been at the forefront of exposing error. (He has been quite charitable to Adventism, however).

Here is another quote from MacArthur that I posted earlier on FAF:

“Listen to the typical gospel presentation nowadays. You’ll hear sinners entreated with words like, ‘accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior’; ‘ask jesus into your heart’; ‘invite Christ into your life’; or ‘make a decision for Christ.’ You may be so accustomed to hearing those phrases that it will surprise you to learn none of them is based on biblical terminology. They are the products of a diluted gospel. It is not the gospel according to Jesus.” (John MacArthur Page 21 “The Gospel According To Jesus")

Accuracy with regard to the gospel is very important.

Stan

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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The problem with someone ‘exposing error’ is that everybody has their version of the truth that is the standard for what ‘error’ is.

According to most former-SDAs or other Christians, annihilation, Sabbath observance, conditional mortality and law-keeping are ‘error’ and people make no bones that the opposite eternal torment, Sunday observance/rest in Christ, immortality of the soul, and fulfilled law in Christ are tried and true-blue truth.

Therefore, those that go against it are teaching ‘doctrines of demons’, ‘false teachings’ and ‘error’ (I even had someone tell me that because I denied that God wouldn’t allow trillions of years of fiery torture but put sinners out of their misery, that I was ‘a follower of my ‘father the devil’ and teaching ‘demonic doctrine’ question ...And yet both can logically support each side by scriptures.

So then many Christians because they ‘know’ that they have a monopoly on the truth, then feel it is their right to denounce others’ teachings as ‘error’ or ‘false gospel’.

This argument didn’t work for the Catholic Church when the Reformation occured, a movement that went against at least 1400 years of accepted ‘truth’.

Why are some Christians so sanctimoniously pious that they feel their interpretation of the scriptures is what is ‘truth’ and all others are in ‘error’? What we need is open-mindedness and dialogue to see if there are in fact other sides to the coin that need to be considered instead of labeling and thinking the truth is always on one’s side and that they are indeed ‘right’.

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Hi Guibox,

I think you make valid points. I think we have to be careful in the way we point out error. There are some very basics of Christianity that can’t be compromised. Desmond Ford was very clear and drew a line in the sand over the gospel. He said very clearly that if the doctrine of justification by faith alone is not taught properly, then we are no better than the errors of Rome. I am just trying to understand from you Guibox, whether you unequivocally believe in what Ford taught as the Lutheran doctrine of Justification by faith alone again summarized here:

“Salvation is by faith alone through Christ alone through God’s grace alone. When you put your trust in Jesus Christ, God declares you righteous. Not because you are, but because He imputes the righteousness of Christ to you, because He imputes your sin to Him. Christ bears your sin, you receive His righteousness. This is the glory of the great doctrine of justification.”
-------------------------------------------------

Ford also said that you cannot lose your salvation by your bad works. The only way you could lose your salvation according to him is if you walk away voluntarily or stop trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

So do you agree with Ford’s drawing this line in the sand as to what differentiates Romanism and traditional SDA from the true gospel of Protestantism?

Stan

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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[quote author="Stan Ermshar"]
I am just trying to understand from you Guibox, whether you unequivocally believe in what Ford taught as the Lutheran doctrine of Justification by faith alone again summarized here:

“Salvation is by faith alone through Christ alone through God’s grace alone. When you put your trust in Jesus Christ, God declares you righteous. Not because you are, but because He imputes the righteousness of Christ to you, because He imputes your sin to Him. Christ bears your sin, you receive His righteousness. This is the glory of the great doctrine of justification.”
-------------------------------------------------

Ford also said that you cannot lose your salvation by your bad works. The only way you could lose your salvation according to him is if you walk away voluntarily or stop trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

So do you agree with Ford’s drawing this line in the sand as to what differentiates Romanism and traditional SDA from the true gospel of Protestantism?

Stan

I both agree and disagree...frankly, I don’t really know what I believe anymore. downer Sad Just because I believe that there is nothing I can do to save myself, doesn’t mean that I don’t think that there is nothing I can do to end up ‘losing myself’. I think the Bible’s use of language makes it clear that a struggle is continally going on in the Christian, that we are to endure to the end, that even in the last days many will ‘fall away’, that the tests at the end of time are there for a reason and can effect us and not merely play out like a movie.

I believe that Jesus saying, ‘Not all who say unto me ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ and ‘depart from me ye that work iniquity’ was talking about genuine Christians (or people who at least thought they were).

I believe that our freedom of choice can make us leave the faith we once had and remove ourselves from God’s grace.

Though I don’t believe that sneaking that pork sandwich or sending off a line of curses and then dying will keep me out of heaven, I can’t believe that when we are called to be different, be like our Father in Heaven, ‘flee from sexual immorality’, ‘confess our sins’, ‘resist the devil’ and ‘fell from evil’ that my actions and my heart don’t matter at any point in our lives after I am saved.

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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[quote author="guibox"]
The problem with someone ‘exposing error’ is that everybody has their version of the truth that is the standard for what ‘error’ is.

There are many doctrines within Christianity that are debated, some of which you mentioned.  But I would not let that debate overshadow the doctrine of justification by faith alone, as this is where the biggest battle in the history of the Christian church was and still is waged.  If we can’t agree on this point, we effectively believe different versions of the gospel and there’s no use traveling down the multitude of theological rabbit trails that lie beyond this.

Greg

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Posted: 25 November 2006 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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[quote author="guibox"]
I both agree and disagree...frankly, I don’t really know what I believe anymore. downer Sad Just because I believe that there is nothing I can do to save myself, doesn’t mean that I don’t think that there is nothing I can do to end up ‘losing myself’. I think the Bible’s use of language makes it clear that a struggle is continally going on in the Christian, that we are to endure to the end, that even in the last days many will ‘fall away’, that the tests at the end of time are there for a reason and can effect us and not merely play out like a movie.

I believe that Jesus saying, ‘Not all who say unto me ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ and ‘depart from me ye that work iniquity’ was talking about genuine Christians (or people who at least thought they were).

I believe that our freedom of choice can make us leave the faith we once had and remove ourselves from God’s grace.

Though I don’t believe that sneaking that pork sandwich or sending off a line of curses and then dying will keep me out of heaven, I can’t believe that when we are called to be different, be like our Father in Heaven, ‘flee from sexual immorality’, ‘confess our sins’, ‘resist the devil’ and ‘fell from evil’ that my actions and my heart don’t matter at any point in our lives after I am saved.

I both agree and disagree...frankly, I don’t really know what I believe anymore.  Sad Just because I believe that there is nothing I can do to save myself, doesn’t mean that I don’t think that there is nothing I can do to end up ‘losing myself’. I think the Bible’s use of language makes it clear that a struggle is continally going on in the Christian, that we are to endure to the end, that even in the last days many will ‘fall away’, that the tests at the end of time are there for a reason and can effect us and not merely play out like a movie.

Guibox, instead of me doing the talking, how about we meditate on the Word of God?

Greg

“‘Though the mountains be shaken and the hills be removed, yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken nor my covenant of peace be removed,’ says the Lord.” (Isaiah 54:10 NIV)

“I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.” (Jeremiah 32:40 NIV)

“What do you think?  If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?  And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.  In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.” (Matthew 18:12-14 NIV)

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16 NIV)

“Whoever believes the Son has eternal life.” (John 3:36 NIV)

“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” (John 5:24 NIV)

“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away....And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” (John 6:37, 39 NIV)

“My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.  I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.  My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” (John 10:27-29 NIV)

“Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me.” (John 17:11 NIV)

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 8:1 NIV)

“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.  And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.  What, then, shall we say in response to this?  If God is for us, who can be against us?...Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?  It is God who justifies.  Whoe is he that condemns?...Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?  Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.  For I am convinced that neighter death, nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:29-39 NIV)

“Jesus Christ...will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.  God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.” (1 Corinthians 1:7-9 NIV)

“God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.  But when you are tempted, he will provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13 NIV)

“he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will...And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.  Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession--to the praise of his glory.” (Ephesians 1:5, 13-14 NIV)

“The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom.  To him be glory for ever and ever.  Amen.” (2 Timothy 4:18 NIV)

“By one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.” (Hebrews 10:14 NIV)

“Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe.” (Hebrews 12:28 NIV)

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!  In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.” (1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV)

“They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.  For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us...And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.” (1 John 2:19,25 NIV)

“for everyone born of God overcomes the world.  This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith...And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  He who has the Son has life...I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life...We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true.  And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ.  He is the true God and eternal life.” (1 John 5:4, 11-13, 20 NIV)

“To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1 NIV)

“To him who is able to keep you from falling, and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” (Jude 24-25 NIV)

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Posted: 25 November 2006 09:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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I hear you Greg, but many of those verses could be taken many different ways and be interpreted differently from a different perspective.

Anyway, I guess we should get back on topic! big surprise

I think when it comes to doctrinal matters, we need to tread lightly on what we perceive as ‘truth’ and ‘error’. The Catholic Church believed that they had all the ‘truth’ and the Reformers said ‘No you don’t’.

Now much of the Protestant world has taken the place of the Catholic church in some regards. They all believe that they have all the truth and anybody that disagrees with them is ‘wrong’ and teaching ‘false doctrine’.

Funny how most of them are ‘right’ but the Catholic Church wasn’t ‘right’ when the Protestant faith went against 1400 years of accepted tradition which was considered truth.

Do you see how ‘elitist’ thinking can put one in the same place where the Pharisees and the Catholic Church were at?

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Posted: 25 November 2006 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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[quote author="guibox"]
Funny how most of them are ‘right’ but the Catholic Church wasn’t ‘right’ when the Protestant faith went against 1400 years of accepted tradition which was considered truth.

Do you see how ‘elitist’ thinking can put one in the same place where the Pharisees and the Catholic Church were at?

Guibox, don’t you think it is possible to believe something is true without being “elitist?”

If you said it would be “exclusivist” to make a truth claim, I would agree with you, since truth by its very nature is exclusive.  1 + 1 will never be 3, and anyone who believes otherwise will by definition be excluded from truth.

Maybe I’m not understanding your point...if not I apologize in advance and I will wait for further clarification.

Greg

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Posted: 25 November 2006 09:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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[quote author="guibox"]I hear you Greg, but many of those verses could be taken many different ways and be interpreted differently from a different perspective.

Guibox,

Respectfully, that wide spectrum of Biblical texts which Greg quoted are so clear.

I guess I have to ask what perspective you are interpreting those texts from?

Since I was brought up on Ellen White as having the last word, and always reading the Bible through the eyes of Ellen White, it just seems that the perspective that keeps some from seeing the fullness of God’s infinite grace. Ellen keeps us from seeing the magnitude of God’s grace in salvation, and keeps us from seeing how powerful God is in keeping us in His grace.

Please continue to meditate on those beautiful texts of scripture Greg posted above.

In His Grace,

Stan

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Posted: 25 November 2006 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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[quote author="Greg"]
Guibox, don’t you think it is possible to believe something is true without being “elitist?”

If you said it would be “exclusivist” to make a truth claim, I would agree with you, since truth by its very nature is exclusive.  1 + 1 will never be 3, and anyone who believes otherwise will by definition be excluded from truth.

Maybe I’m not understanding your point...if not I apologize in advance and I will wait for further clarification.

Greg

I do believe that there are some things that can be determined as error to the point where one can safely ‘expose’ it. However, too many take this to the point where ‘error’ becomes ‘what doesn’t agree with my belief system’ no matter how much I can support it from scripture.

To me this is narrow minded elitist thinking which the Catholic Church was guilty of before the Reformation came and stood what was commonly accepted on its head.

Sadly, too many sanctimoniously claim the ‘truth’ at the exclusivity of all other opinions that matchup to what ends up being mostly their own interpretation.

Usually the argument they fall back on is..."This is what was believed for so long, it must be the truth”. My retort is, “Unless you are Catholic that is not valid for you have gone against that very thing by becoming Protestant”

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