Fred Phelps for many years has been picketing the funerals of people they deem worthy of hell so they can rub the sins in the face of Americans. I have never seen such hate and vile judgement come from an organization that claims to be Christian before. This is like the Baptist equivalent of the fringe militant historic SDA movement like sdadefend. They even have a countdown of the number of days Matthew Shepherd has been in hell!

He and his Ku Klux Klan church (that is the only thing I could use to properly describe this organization) plan to picket the funerals of those massacred in the Virginia Tech shootings.

Anyway, one of the points I was wanting to make was that this Baptist church believes in Calvinism and TULIP. I am having a hard time reconciling their theology with their methodology. They ar picketing to try and force people to repent of their sin (in a warped sense). They said that Matthew Shepherd is burning in hell because he was an ‘impenitent sodomite’.

How in the world can repentance occur when Calvinism believes we are chosen and drawn? I don’t understand. They do not preach love for all or that Christ died for all (which would seemingly mean those that they rail against) and yet they picket their funerals and claim that God’s judgment will be on them because they are choosing their lifestyle.

Now I know one can’t judge Calvinism or even Christianity by these sicko quacks, but I’m still trying to understand how one can really reconcile this.

If you can stomach this garbage, in addition to http://www.godhatesfags.com (can you believe that??), there official website is below.

http://www.godhatesamerica.com/ghfmir/main/index.html

[quote author="guibox"]Now I know one can’t judge Calvinism or even Christianity by these sicko quacks, but I’m still trying to understand how one can really reconcile this.

I’ve heard it said that when evaluating the teachings of a church or a theological belief system, it is most fair to judge that system by its best or most representative elements rather than on the basis of its worst elements.

I don’t think it is fair to criticize John Calvin’s theology on the basis of what some very sick individuals are doing in his name, just like I don’t think it’s right to broad brush Adventism based on what certain groups within it are doing.

I heard about the Westboro Baptist Church church previously and I have nothing but the harshest criticism for groups like this who give all Christians (regardless of their belief about Calvinism) a bad name.  True Christians do not rejoice over the prospect of sinners going to hell.  We follow the counsel of Scripture, which says, “[H]ave mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh” (Jude 1:22-23).

I have an audio file somewhere of a Baptist minister who said some eloquent words of apology on behalf of his denomination to those who caught the attention of Fred Phelp’s “church”, some of whom died while serving in the military.  I will try to find the audio and post some of the words here if I can.  As I recall, Phelps’ followers believe that God is visiting His judgment on America because of our lax attitude toward homosexuality, and God’s punishment can be seen in every dead American soldier who comes home from the Middle East.

Getting back to my original point, I think we’ve been reasonably credible on this website in examining the doctrines of the Adventist church according to the official fundamental belief statements, the testimony of Ellen White, and from the current denomination-sanctioned literature.  We haven’t looked for poor witnesses of the Adventist faith, instead preferring to stay with the main line beliefs.

For example, we don’t need to look to the fringe groups to find out whether the Adventist church has placed its emphasis on the gospel message throughout the years.  The Adventist pioneers were very eloquent and verbose about their beliefs and their writings have been carefully preserved for testing against the Bible to this day.

I am sickened by what the Phelps family does in the name of Christianity or “Calvinism”, and when I was in the Adventist church I was sickened by what the denominational officials were doing in the name of protecting the church, fortifying doctrines that should have been thrown out years ago.

Greg

Greg,

I apologize if I have come across the way you feel, that I am criticizing Calvinism because these quacks believe it. I definitely feel you have been fair in not bringing the SDA quack theology into the mix.

I was merely wondering if there is any justification to trying to reconcile Phelp’s belief in Calvinism (which would include election and no freedom of choice) and their methodology of trying to be prophets bringing curses, doom and judgmeent on people and nations. Isn’t the purpose of this to make people turn away and embrace Christ?

How exactly does condemning someone into hell yet preaching to them work under a Calvinistic mindset?

Guibox, no need to apologize, I probably just didn’t express myself well.

To get to the heart of your question without knowing any more detail about Phelps’ teaching, all I can say is that people come to all sorts of whacked-out conclusions based on a very poor understanding of Scripture.  Phelps may say he is a Calvinist, but he does not follow through with the careful study of Scripture that taking such a position requires.

Romans 10 gives us no indication that we should condemn someone to hell and simultaneously preach the good news.  Everyone needs to hear the good news, and it is up to the Holy Spirit to work on the hearts and minds of those who hear it.

Paul’s counsel to the Corinthians in this regard is wise:

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.  Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others.” (2 Corinthians 5:10-11 ESV).

Persuasion does not involve condemnation or inflammation, but reconciliation and ingratiation.

Greg

Guibox,

Fred Phelps is regarded as a non-Christian by resposible evangelicals. There are harsh hyper-Calvinists who themselves are unsaved.

Stan

Phelps and his gang are pretty out there. He’s a poster child for “when bad Christians happen to good people”.

I couldn’t help contrasting Phelps’ attitudes towards sinners with that of John Reisinger. I’d reference the exact article but I’m at my home computer and can’t seem to pull up the Reisinger site I have bookmarked on my work PC.