I would like to make an announcement of an interesting AAF meeting in San Diego coming up on Saturday afternoon 10/13/07 at 3PM at the Tierrasanta SDA church in San Diego. If anyone reading this can make it, this should be a real eye opener with regard to the credibility of the White estate in trying to defend the indefensible statements of Ellen White regarding race relations. Especially, her statement regarding the amalgamation of man and beast resulting in a certain race of “bushmen” in Africa.

The researcher who will speak on this topic is T. Joe Willey, one of my former teachers of physiology in medical school. Apparently he has done a lot of research in the field of Ellen White and race, and with the benefit of high speed search engines on the internet, he apparently has come up with some very surprising and shocking revelations with regard to James and Ellen White’s views of race relations. And he has just come up with these shocking items recently, as originally his topic at this presentation was going to be something entirely different.

Unfortunately, due to present home circumstances, I will not be able to make it, but the tapes of this meeting will be available, and I will try to obtain them after the meeting, so stay tuned, this might be very interesting.

Stan

Stan, thanks for letting us know about this. I’ve seen some disturbing statements by Ellen White about how the “lower classes” should not be evangelized and of course the amalgamation of man and beast giving rise to certain “savage” races. Of course, if Ellen White was a true Christian prophet, she would not have seen certain individuals as inferior to herself but would have seen them all as the image-bearers of God. Something similar happened in the Mormon church where African-Americans were not allowed to be in the priesthood (if my memory serves), and the later “prophets” of the church overturned the earlier “God-given” commandments to avoid further embarrassment.

It will be interesting to hear those tapes when they become available, I just hope those in attendance don’t treat this as an academic exercise without any present-day ramifications.

Greg

Fortunately, the Lord provided a way for me to go to this meeting, as our caregiver was available.

The presentation today was a real eye-opener. Dr. Willey did his homework and he brought out some important details on this topic that I have never realized before.

This presentation today has forced me to do some serious rethinking regarding what I can say about Ellen White.

If I can verify all that was said today was true, then it must clearly be said that Ellen White was a false prophet.

It is absolutely clear that the White estate and EGW apologists have grossly lied and misrepresented Ellen’s rather clear statement that certain races of people were a result of amalgamation of man and beast.

Ellen White reflected her times when people were very racist, and instead of coming out like a true prophet of God, and condemning racism, she also made many racist statements.

But it is now undeniable that there is no credible defense for Ellen White’s statement on amalgamation.

James White knew good and well what Ellen White meant by the statement regarding amalgamation resulting in a new race of people. Uriah Smith defended this view in a publication written in 1868. James White was excited about Uriah Smith’s defense of this unscientific and racist viewpoint, and James White personally had 2000 books published and distributed at an 1868 campmeeting so people could read Uriah Smith’s defense.

So how can the White estate continue to say that Ellen White did not really mean what it appears she wrote? The White estate in some ways makes it worse, by not only lying about it, but claiming that Ellen White meant interracial marriage, or marriage of unbelievers to believers.

Remember Ellen White said that this amalgamation was a base crime. So how could interracial marriage be a base crime if that is what she meant?

But the very worse part of this statement, is that her belief that Satan manipulated the human race some how to pollute it with beasts, and actually believe that a new race of people was created after ADam and Eve.

TJ Willey showed how this idea does great damage to the gospel and the objective atonement, as the Bible only assumes one Adamic race which was fallen and needed redemption, and, Ellen White’s ideas clearly destroyed any assurance of salvation, because how could any of us know that we were not part of the polluted race that God will destroy?

And not only this, but Ellen White went so far to say that she was shown this truth in vision. This is where it gets REALLY serious. As Willey put it “Can you imagine the Holy Spirit taking the time one day to reveal to Ellen in a vision this important truth that certain races of humans were created as a result of amalgamation of man and beast? Is there anything more absurd than this, First of all, it is impossible for there to be any offspring from a union associated with bestiality, and the idea that bushmen in Africa was a result of this union is overtly racist.

If Ellen claimed to have a vision from the Lord regarding this, we know absolutely that either Ellen White was mentally ill, or that she was a false prophet, and a lying prophet.

I don’t see a third possibility. Maybe my friend Guibox can come up with an explanation from Graeme Bradford or some other source explaining these actions.

There is so much more to say about this. There is also a publication which Dr. Willey is publishing with some shocking new material on this topic, and it is available on PDF file and I will try to make this available to those who are interested. I also got the recordings of the meeting.

Again, as I get time, I will have to verify some things I heard today, but the implications of the seriousness of the statements made should make anyone who is still interested in defending Ellen White as a true prophet of God take notice.

It is good news that this meeting took place in an SDA church. But the SDA denomination will try to find some way to discredit Willey’s findings, if they come out in print as planned. Some people will bend over backwards to try to protect and defend that which has no defense.

More on this later.

I welcome your thoughts.

Stan

I have no problem with some of the crazy things EGW says as I do not hold her up to an infallible standard. She grew theologically and spiritually throughout her life, she was a product of her time and her role in the church met the homiletic criteria of a NT prophet. Such worrisome quotes as the amalgamation one, her borrowing, and her sometimes seeming hypocrisy due to her own struggles, are only a problem for those who believe in verbal inspiration and that EGW’s writings are the standard by which all historical, medicinal, genetical and theological truths must be judged by.

In speaking about the almalgamation issue, Bradford says that EGW was also a product of her time which is perfectly normal for someone inspired.

A statement she once made, which has caused much comment over the years in Adventism, is: “But if there was one sin above another which called for the destruction of the race by flood, it was the base crime of amalgamation of man with beast which defaced the image of God and caused confusion everywhere. . . . The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals and in certain races of men"234 (Emphasis added). Scientific progress made over recent years we can see that it is possible to mix the genes of animals and mankind. So she would not be out of harmony with modern science on that account. However, it is the statement made about the mixture giving us certain races that creates a problem. It was commonly believed in her day that there were certain races as a result of this amalgamation–for instance, the wild Bushmen of Africa

Putting all her writings in perspective Bradford says this:

At times she bears messages that need to be evaluated by the hearers as to their appropriateness. Some of these messages need to be understood in the light of the cultural setting of the time when they were first delivered. We also have to bear in mind the human aspect in receiving and delivering the messages (as previously stated in reference to Romans 12:6). That is, there is a chance she may not get things quite right in every precise detail. Remember she never claimed infallibility

Bert Haloviak adds, “There were times when Ellen White herself could misinterpret a vision or misstate or imperfectly express what had been revealed to her. Note what her son, W C White stated to Kellogg: ‘Sister White was not infallible in stating things revealed to her.’ There are at least three examples where Ellen White apparently misstated or misunderstood something revealed through vision: Eve touching food in the Garden of Eden and death as the result; the number of generations contemporaneously living at the time of the flood; the use of Southern Publishing facilities as a depot.”

Many Adventists, as well as those who are antagonistic to Ellen White’s writings, have failed to take into account that she did start out a young and in many respects immature girl to whom great responsibility was given. Nor do they take into account that she did grow old and suffer with the frailties that accompany those who live into their 80s. Most tend to see her as always being a woman in her prime. Failure to understand this has caused many to overlook her personal spiritual journey and growth to spiritual maturity. This accounts for the fact that some can produce statements from the earlier Ellen White and match them against the latter Ellen White, and make them appear to be contradictions.

Stan, thanks for posting that initial summary and I look forward to hearing more about this meeting. I agree that if Ellen White prefaced the amalgamation statements with an “I was shown...”, this calls into question every other “I was shown” statement she made.

Guibox, please help me understand something. If Ellen White says God showed her in vision that some human races were the result of sexual relations with animals and you disbelieve her, how do you trust her other “I was shown” accounts? To discount all the obviously erroneous statements as Ellen White being “young” or the “product of her times” is basically saying that God had a communication problem when He attempted to convey truth to her. And if God is unable to convey truth clearly to humans, the entirety of Scripture comes under suspicion because virtually every verse could be tainted with culturally-conditioned human error.

Greg

My husband was raised Baptist but accepted the SDA message at a tent meeting when he was in his late teens.  We are both now 51 years old and have been married twenty nine years.

We are also African Americans and when we first heard of Ellen White’s comments on amalgamation and the Bush Negro, it was a thorn in our sides.  Twenty years ago our family lived in Lakeview, Michigan.  A retired pastor showed us in a book where Ellen White had condemned the wearing of wedding rings but had consented to let her son or grandson (I forget which) wear one because he was leaving the country.  That was the first tiny disappointment. 

Over the past 15 years, or so, my husband started expressing doubt in the authenticity of Ellen White’s title, “prophet” after doing his own research.  He’s read many parts of the Testimonies and reviewed a CD with all her writings. 

Having been raised SDA and gone through its grade school system, I must say I am truly disappointed.  And my disapointment lies in those in authority who insist on holding her and her belief system up as a standard when it is so evident that both are unworthy.  My husband has often said something was seriously wrong if an Angel of God told her something false at the outset and had to cme back later to tell her the truth.

The SDA church probably will never wake up as a whole and seperate themselves from her totally.  But those who proclaim to be children of God had better stand on God’s side, for he is no respector of persons and has never denounced any of his children as being inferior to any other.  God is love and we, His children, should be striving to follow His command and start showing his love to each other so the world will know we are truly His offspring.  As the song says, “And they’ll know we are Christians by our love.”

With all the racial divide, at all levels in the SDA remnant church, how will the world ever see the love of God in us?  Heaven help us all. 

Thank you so much for presenting the TRUTH.  My prayer is that our Father through the Holy Spirit would open our eyes to His will and that we would see each other as our heavenly Father sees us.  I look forward to further information on this CA meeting and the forthcoming tape.  Press on in Jesus name. 

Unlike Martin Luther and many others, who progressively matured in their faith and knowledge, Ellen White could never claim such a luxury for her ignorance and misstatements. After all, her first vision was supposedly just as inspired and just as directly from the throne of God as her last one. She effectively put herself into a box.  The contemporary SDA alibi about “thought inspiration” was obviously unknown to her.

When writing these precious books, if I hesitated, the very word I wanted to express an idea was given to me.” (Selected Messages, Vol. 3, pp. 51,52; 1907)

Dennis Fischer

Welcome everlearning to 4TG! Thanks for that stirring testimony. We look forward to hearing more from you.

As Ellen White “matured” in her thought process, this amalgamation statement started to plague her, so she changed her view somewhat, and continued her racist bent, by teaching that these races of black people were a result of the curse of Caanan, or Ham that resulted from the way Ham treated Noah when he was drunk in his tent. So therefore the race of Ham was cursed by God, and these cursed groups resulted. This view is not much better, and good scholars have long discredited this faulty view of the origin of the black races.

Also, TJ Willey pointed out that the “N” word for black people was used thirty times in the official church paper up until 1930.

The SDA church never has been a leader in race relations.

Also, Willey brought out how terrible the timing of Ellen’s Amalgamation statement was. She wrote this statement in 1864, just as the civil war was winding down, and when you think of the numbers of black people who had already been slain, then to make this kind of absurd statement which dumped on black people even further and then to claim that this statement was inspired by God really adds insult to injury.

Stan

Guibox,

I appreciate you taking the time to reply as thoroughly as you have done, and coming up with those quotes.

However, I just don’t understand what you or Bradford would claim to have left with regard to Ellen White’s authority?

She was the one who claimed as Dennis pointed out that all her words were directly from the throne of God, as to quote her “precious rays from the throne”, and she claimed her words were as authoritative as were the OT Biblical prophets.

What is the use of having Ellen As a continuing and authoritative source of truth, if it is clearly obvious that she made such ridiculous and absurd statements? Why do I need a prophet that tells me that it was from the amalgamation of man and beast that certain races of black people came about? I don’t need that kind of continuing source of truth, in fact this is an embarrassment to the church for them to keep defending these kinds of statements.

The reason the White estate and the SDA church considers Graeme Bradford such a threat, is that he “Makes of no effect the Spirit of Prophecy” The way he goes about doing apologetics reduces Ellen’s level of inspiration to a very low level. Even Clifford Goldstein admits to a picking and choosing style of what to believe. If we approached the Bible in the same way, we get the typical liberal religions we are seeing in SDA and liberal protestantism.

In some ways at least I can deal with the conservative SDAs who believe every word of Ellen’s was inspired in an easier way, than I can deal with the new apologetics of Bradford. At least our friends on R/S stand for something, and they claim to have objective truth, whereas I am not sure what objective truth Bradford stands for, or whether he has any criteria for objective truth.

However, Guibox, this strong statement is not meant to be a reflection on your understanding of truth, as I know you have expressed objective truth very well many times. I am just frustrated by what seems to be a justification for Ellen White’s prophetic office which no longer seems credible. As Walter Rea once said “It is time to relegate our 19th century prophet as a relic of the past that only belongs in museums.” (He made this statement when he made a presentation on EGW at the Redlands museum in 1981, when he was not allowed to make his presentation in an SDA church, but was forced to be relegated to a museum.)

At least this presentation I attended last Saturday was held in an SDA church which does surprise me.

At least the SDA church owes it to people everywhere to own up to the lies and misrepresentations of Ellen White that they have been doing for years.

AThe White estate, and the entire White defense organization needs to be called out for what it really is. Thankfully, some people like TJ Willey who is still an SDA are for now trying to make reforms from within, but this is unlikely to be successful.

One other thing Dr. Willey needs to be highly commended for on this presentation last Saturday. He is the first person in a long time at these usually liberal AAF events to draw conclusions about this subject with regard for the gospel. Notice that he did not just criticize, and say ‘wow, what a fraud this is’. He went much further and brought the implications as conflicting with the very heart of the gospel, and that is the objective atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ for every believing sinner in the Adamic race, no matter what the skin color or ethnic background. And he brought out how Ellen’s teachings conflict directly with our assurance of salvation.

Stan

Here is a website that deals with the amalgamation issue in detail at this link:

http://ellenwhiteexposed.com/critica.htm

I will have to go through Willey’s presentation more thoroughly to present more detailed info than is already posted on this website.

I had never heard the implications for the gospel that this horrific teaching poses, but that is serious enough.

Willey did come up with other writings expressing similar views in other literature of Ellen’s age, and there was more word for word plagiarism exposed.

Stan

The official Ellen White website has their defense of these satements posted at:

http://ellenwhite.com/

You have to click on the “Issues and Answers” section on the left and scroll down to amalgamation, and there is a link to F.D. Nichol’s defense of the indefensible.

What is it in the heart of these people to have to defend every statement Ellen White ever made?

The Ellen White official site also slams Graeme Bradford’s book.

The White estate is committed to thir cause no matter what the facts are.

Stan

Posted anonymously by: T Joe Willley

Greetings:

The comments from this blog are very uplifting to me.  I worked solid in the literature for several months on the blemish of the statements from Ellen White on amalgamation of man and beast.  After my presentation two gentle black persons thanked me for spending the time and for being so informative to an issue that has bothered them over the years.  I asked if they were offened and they said no, not at all.  It was the first time they’d heard a white man speak to the issue with such forthrightness.  Later they asked me if I thought Ellen White was a racists as that labelled is bantied about.  I told them she was a naive racist.  She came from the North, had little experience with blacks and the Adventist did not “send missionaries” to the South until almost 20 years after the Civil War.  Unlike other denomonations, the Adventist did not split over slavery prior to the Civil War because they had no effort, no books, no preachers in the South.  Mrs. White and others in the Sabbatharian movement following the Great Disappointed still suffered from the unfilled prophecy of Christ’s coming.  It was still just around the corner.  As James White wrote in August 1862 Adventist had no dog in the race while America was in upheavel over color and slavery issues that eventually were so murderous.  Truly sad to be that narrow-minded.

Not to make my comments too long if you have the ability to post a PDF file I’d be happy to let any of your readers go over each slide and understand the presentation and where to find the source information.  I document my findings.  The most unusual was the pamphlet by Ariel (Buchner Payne) written by a proslavery minister in the South that Ellen White appears to have mimic’d for her amalgamation statements.

This amalgamation story is one of the best examples that Ellen White was a daughter of her age.  She was fundamentally what we would call in intellectual classification a degenerationist (man is passing through regressive evolution to become more evil), a Lamarckian (acquired traits from the parents are passed to the children generation after generation), phrenology sensitive (used phrenology terms frequently such as animal propensities), a quasi-polygenist (she accounts for multiple creations of man, i.e., amalgamation of man and beast to produce a species not of God’s creation).

Remember the Amerindians were also “beasts” (Digger Indians mentioned by Uriah Smith in 1869) and will not be heaven so there were potentially many left out of the opportunity to enjoy heaven with no more sorrow, tears or suffering. (According to Ellen White)

This whole concept of amalgmation basically ruins the very foundation of the cardinal doctrine of Christianity.  The denial of humanness for any tribe or group of mankind raises doubts for the atonement through Christ for everyone.  We are all in the soup together.  There is no solution to Mrs. White’s statements....amalgamation and Noah’s curse should be removed with an apology to white and blacks and all “races.” How can any one assure himself a participant in the blessings of the gospel.  As Abraham Lincoln said to Congress around 1862...if we do not give freedom to everyone how can we be assured that someday our own freedom will not be taken from us.

Cheers and Blessings to all

t joe willey

Thanks Dr. Willey for your research and taking the time to give us your response and reactions.

I just started reading the PDF you sent and I found this very troubling quotation from Early Writings:

“I saw that the slave master will have to answer for the soul of his slave whom he has kept in ignorance; and the sins of the slave will be visited upon the master. God cannot take to heaven the slave who has been kept in ignorance and degradation, knowing nothing of God or the Bible, fearing nothing but his master’s lash, and holding a lower position than the brutes. But He does the best thing for him that a compassionate God can do. He permits him to be as if he had not been, while the master must endure the seven last plagues and then come up in the second resurrection and suffer the second, most awful death. Then the justice of God will be satisfied.” EGW. Early Writings. 1851. p. 276
------------------------------------------------------

How much more blatant a denial of the truths of the gospel can there be than this? Slaves will be as if they have never been?

Stan

Stan,

I find it most amazing that the Tierrasanta Seventh-day Adventist church in San Diego even allows the Association of Adventist Forums to conduct meetings in their church. It was also interesting when the AAF had Dr. Ronald Numbers address them in the LLU chapel a few years ago on the topic of Ellen G. White. A devout Adventist man had be escorted out of the meeting when he interrupted Dr. Numbers from the audience. His face was reportedly red, and the veins in his neck were showing (smile).  I have a recording of that AAF meeting.

Dr. Numbers shared some historical tidbits of Ellen White in regard to masturbation, etc. (i.e., the time she had a vision that the two teenagers living next-door to the White home were masturbating). It so happened that one of those boys grew up to be a notable legislator in the State of Michigan. Apparently, masturbation didn’t rot his whole brain (smile). EGW stated that the “crime” of self-abuse or secret vice (masturbation) is actually equivalent to committing suicide.

Such are just as surely self-murderers as though they pointed a pistol to their own breast, and destroyed their life instantly. (An Appeal to Mothers, 1864)

Dennis Fischer

John 3:16
Stan,
I am sure I have told about my younger brother some where, but I will repeat it here anyway.
My youngest brother married a black lady.  About 15 years ago he discovered what EGW said about the black slaves.  He was so angry and he was SDA.  So he started studying the Bible and what EGW wrote and studied himself out of the SDA church.  Unfortunately, he has not connected with a Bible believing church, though he still believes the Bible.
Just wanted all of you to know how some people reacted to her statements.
Diana

Diana,

I have often wondered how African-Americans would react to Ellen White’s racial statements. How could they continue to adore her when she said demeaning things about them? With an expanding Internet, more and more people have access to detailed information throughout the world. Thanks for sharing the story about your brother and sister-in-law.

Dennis Fischer