I keep reading about the scapegoat and the associated idea that satan becomes the substitute for our sins somehow.  Could someone give a clear and biblical reasoning for this position? I’ve been researching the investigative judgment and am interesting in all opinions on it. Thanks for your time.

Matthew - 23 September 2009 01:46 PM

I keep reading about the scapegoat and the associated idea that satan becomes the substitute for our sins somehow.  Could someone give a clear and biblical reasoning for this position? I’ve been researching the investigative judgment and am interesting in all opinions on it. Thanks for your time.

Hello Mathew

There is no Biblical support for Satan being a substitute for our sins. Those who would like to malign Adventists will of course try to tell you differently, but in a nutshell; that is not what Adventists teach.

One thing is for sure - the five main players on this forum will soon charge in with their familiar arguments saying the opposite. I am glad that you are open to all opinions on this question; if you are still interested in an answer; maybe you could reply sometime.

Hi Matthew, you ask a good question. The last post indicated that “There is no Biblical support for Satan being a substitute for our sins.” Of course this is correct, however, in the next statement, we read, “Those who would like to malign Adventists will of course try to tell you differently, but in a nutshell; that is not what Adventists teach.”

Unfortunately, Ellen White’s words argue against this assertion. She is perhaps the most important Adventist voice to hear regarding what Adventists teach, although many Adventists want to minimize the importance of her words, particularly when she writes something that is hard to defend from Scripture, such as the following:

“‘And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: and the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities into a land not inhabited.’ Not until the goat had been thus sent away did the people regard themselves as freed from the burden of their sins. Every man was to afflict his soul while the work of atonement was going forward. Patriarchs and Prophets, page 355

“When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, then the sins of the repentant soul who has received the grace of Christ and has overcome through the blood of the Lamb, will be removed from the records of heaven, and will be placed upon Satan, the scapegoat, the originator of sin, and be remembered no more against him forever. . . . When the conflict of life is ended, when the armor is laid off at the feet of Jesus, when the saints of God are glorified, then and then only will it be safe to claim that we are saved, and sinless.” Selected Messages, Book 3, page 355

Much love to your dear father and to your sisters and brother. Tell them to be faithful to serve God. I have often prayed for them. Tell them to pray much that their sins may be confessed upon the head of the scapegoat and borne away into the land of forgetfulness. A little longer and Jesus’ work will be finished in the sanctuary.” Manuscript Releases, Volume Nineteen, page 131, paragraph 3.

Please refer to this thread, where the above quotes were discussed.

In the end, no Adventist can provide a biblical defense for Ellen White’s words on this subject. She makes clear that the scapegoat for all sin is Satan, and that we are to pray that our sins be confessed upon him. This is blasphemy, whether intentional or not. These statements should have been repudiated long ago, but repudiation of the prophetess’ words carries big consequences within Adventism.

Greg

Greg - 01 October 2009 03:53 PM

Hi Matthew, you ask a good question. The last post indicated that “There is no Biblical support for Satan being a substitute for our sins.” Of course this is correct, however, in the next statement, we read, “Those who would like to malign Adventists will of course try to tell you differently, but in a nutshell; that is not what Adventists teach.”

Unfortunately, Ellen White’s words argue against this assertion. She is perhaps the most important Adventist voice to hear regarding what Adventists teach, although many Adventists want to minimize the importance of her words, particularly when she writes something that is hard to defend from Scripture, such as the following:

LOL, what did I tell you!

Notice there is no biblical defense for Ellen White’s words, just a “See, I told you someone would claim we are in error!”. 101, make a biblical argument that we should confess our sins on Satan the scapegoat and I will change my tune.

Greg

I never came across the idea of “Satan being the substitute” as reflected in the scapegoat. I think the word scapegoat (and I am not English Native speaker so pardon my poor command of English) was used as there was no other English word to use to refer to that goat being lead into the desert. I believe that both the saved and the lost have to be represented in the sacrifial services and these are seen in the two animals being killed; one to represent the death of sinners which Jesus took upon himself and the other the death of sin itself which will end with the death of Satan.,

Welcome to 4TG, Lesaya!  I hope you’ll find your time here profitable.

“9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering, 10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.” Leviticus 16:9-10

The above passage makes it crystal clear that the live goat was an atonement and if it is as the text says than I don’t see how it would be incorrect to call this a satanic atonement and I’m just not ready to go there.  Christ removes our sin as far as the East is from the West and it would take a live goat to symbolize this for obvious reasons.

Once again, welcome!

Interesting that this topic comes up again.

I wonder if it would be possible to organize this forum by topic so that it would be easy to find discussions on investigative judgement, eternal hell, etc.