If you visit the website of the Evangelical ministry of the Family Radio (http://www.familyradio.com) you will see at the top of the screen a key to enter a section with Bible chronology studies on which it is written: May 21, 2011—Judgment Day. They seem convinced that at such date we will witness the end of the world.
Harold Camping, director of the Radio Family ministry, says that he has 99% of certainty that his calculations of the time of the Judgment Day are accurate, and admits only 1% of possibility that they are wrong.
I do not deny the sincerity of him and his followers, but I believe that the equation is exactly the opposite. There is 1% possibility that the Judgment Day will occur on the 21st of May, 2011 (since it has to be one day. . .), and 99% that these calculations are flawed.
A famous philosopher said once that those who don’t learn with the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them. ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’, among several dates set for events that were never confirmed along their history, taught that 1975 would be the year when humanity would see the beginning of the millennium of peace. But nothing happened as expected. Their basis for calculation was about the same of the Family Radio folks--the text of 2 Ped. 3:8, “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day”.
The problem is that they take those words as a FIXED RATE, which makes no sense. Psalm 90:4 of the New World Translation, of the JW’s themselves, destroys that idea, as it says that “For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night”.
What do we have here? TWO COMPARISONS – one thousand years for the humans is BOTH a complete day, and PART of a complete day, for God, since it would compare to a watch during the night.
What one can realize from that is that the comparison is PURELY METAPHORICAL, not a fixed rate. If taken literally one might even absurdly be able to measure the size of God (at least timewise): If 1.000 human years is tantamount to 1 day for God, then God is only 365,000 times bigger than man.
Jehovah’s Witnesses’, among several dates set for events that were never confirmed along their history, taught that 1975 would be the year when humanity would see the beginning of the millennium of peace. But nothing happened as expected. Their basis for calculation was about the same of the Family Radio folks--the text of 2 Ped. 3:8, “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day”.
Don’t you know that JW’s and SDA’s are kissing cousins? The link from Wm. Miller to CT Russell of the JW’s is George Stores, who actually put a Clock-time on the failed 1844 date. Jesus warns you of false prophets in Matt 7, does that mean anything to you? Jesus warns of private interpretation in 2 Peter, does that mean anything to you?
What claim do either the JW’s or SDA’s have on an individual when they have both practiced timesetting and private interpretations, and never repented of such?
This is a biased analysis of the history of both movements. I know very well the Jehovah’s Witnesses, for I even authored a book on them, which was published (in Portuguese) by our Brazil Publishing House, called O Desafio da Torre de Vigia [The Watchtower Challenge]. The book has even the preface of a well-known Brazilian Evangelical author and intelelectual.
Russell himself speaks about having been influenced by “second adventists”, a few who after the Great Disappointment, kept on setting dates, but they have nothing to do with the group that later on became the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
After Jesus’ death the group He had led and taught for three and half years was also for a while in great confusion. God leads His people through trials, tribulations and trouble many times, for the refining process is necessary and constructive. If we think how the Reformers acted initially in terms of lacking tolerance towards opponents (see Luther’s scathing statements against the Jews, Calvin’s intolerance in Geneve, even indirectly being behind the scenes of Serveto’s death condenation), how they neglected to promote separation of Church and state, to freed the slaves, among other flaws in their religious-political experience we would be in better condition to understand their uncertainties of the early times and not pass judgment so fast on SDA pioneers (see Matt. 12:36).
The history of the Watchtower movement has a fundamental difference--they kept on setting date after date, which failed one after the other, never learning the lessons from previous disappointments, which is not the same that happened to Seventh-day Adventists.
Brito,
Thanks for reminding us all of Harold Camping and his false predictions. He originally had the date 1994 and wrote a book, but when he was wrong, he refused to repent and came up with another date as you mentioned.
I have been listening to family radio from the mid 1960’s when the ministry first started. Camping used to be a very orthodox Bible teacher, and he still believes in TULIP. But he has gone off the deep end for sure with his terrible hermeneutic regarding the exact date of Christ’s return being may 21 2011.
He also teaches a very dangerous form of annihilation in that he believes that all who have died unsaved will never be resurrected to receive their final punishment. This means that Hitler and all the other evil men will never live to be punished for their terrible sins. He brings reproach on this doctrine that is far different from what John Stott and Phillip Hughes have taught, and from what I believe.
It is very sad to see all this happen to what once was a great ministry. I am still blessed by the conservative sacred music that is played on Family Radio. It is really refreshing to hear beautiful hymns unadulterated with rock drums and guitars. This of course is my own personal opinion on sacred music and is not meant to be judgmental of those who want to listen to rock music and find it worshipful. I enjoy rock music in secular settings, but it is not my idea of worship.
Your are right, they have some weird ideas. I also like the conservative kind of music they play, but don’t like the arrogance that Mr. Camping reveals as he despises all the other faiths and say that all the other churches are now “controlled by Satan”, because of not accepting his views.
But I sent them (in three languages, through their representatives in other areas) the article that I posted at the beginning of this topic, plus an announcement--that on the 21st of May, 2011, around midnight, I will send them an article which has the message they should be proclaming and that I hope they will begin proclaiming after the great disappointment they will go through. Maybe God will act in their favor, and as they face that anticipated disappointment they will humble themselves and change their views.
By the way, see attached the article that I plan to send them at the right time, when they are “vulnerable” enough to understand better the Bible message.
This is a biased analysis of the history of both movements. I know very well the Jehovah’s Witnesses, for I even authored a book on them, which was published (in Portuguese) by our Brazil Publishing House, called O Desafio da Torre de Vigia [The Watchtower Challenge]. The book has even the preface of a well-known Brazilian Evangelical author and intelelectual.
Russell himself speaks about having been influenced by “second adventists”, a few who after the Great Disappointment, kept on setting dates, but they have nothing to do with the group that later on became the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
After Jesus’ death the group He had led and taught for three and half years was also for a while in great confusion. God leads His people through trials, tribulations and trouble many times, for the refining process is necessary and constructive. If we think how the Reformers acted initially in terms of lacking tolerance towards opponents (see Luther’s scathing statements against the Jews, Calvin’s intolerance in Geneve, even indirectly being behind the scenes of Serveto’s death condenation), how they neglected to promote separation of Church and state, to freed the slaves, among other flaws in their religious-political experience we would be in better condition to understand their uncertainties of the early times and not pass judgment so fast on SDA pioneers (see Matt. 12:36).
The history of the Watchtower movement has a fundamental difference--they kept on setting date after date, which failed one after the other, never learning the lessons from previous disappointments, which is not the same that happened to Seventh-day Adventists.
That is just not true. The SDA movement themselves did keep on setting date after date, not learning their lesson. This includes Ellen White herself, based on her visions (many of which she tried to suppress once they failed). She finally learned her lesson not to be as precise in her predictions, but she kept making failed predictions about “the second coming” even in her later years.
Azenilto Brito - 20 July 2010 10:52 AM
Hello Bro. Stan
Your are right, they have some weird ideas. I also like the conservative kind of music they play, but don’t like the arrogance that Mr. Camping reveals as he despises all the other faiths and say that all the other churches are now “controlled by Satan”, because of not accepting his views.
You are just being completely hypocritical. Your quote from Camping is almost the exact same thing that Ellen White quotes her angel as telling her! Take a look at her quote:
“Said the angel, ‘Nothing less than the whole armor of righteousness can enable man to overcome the powers of darkness and retain the victory over them. Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body. The sayings and doings of men are dwelt upon instead of the plain, cutting truths of the Word of God. [...]” (Early Writings, page 273, paragraph 2.)
So Ellen’s demon friend told her exactly the same thing that Camping is saying. The woman was a false prophet who was taught by demons (see 1 Timothy 4:1-5).
Could you, please, quote me the exact book where Ellen White set dates for future occurrences? If you can’t show me any dates, you are just being one more biased person to fabricate things against the SDA Church.
What Ellen White says must be understood in its due context. That is not the ONLY things she says. She also says that God has sincere ones in other communities of faith, not excluding the Catholic Church. And a more recent document by the General Conference, which was published in the Sabbath School Quarterly (so that millions of SDA’s were informed about) make clear we are not this type of exclusivist that our friend accuses us of being.
According to the bible a prophet who is ever wrong is a false prophet. She EGW definately qualifies.
Jer 23:32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, declares the LORD, and who tell them and lead my people astray by their lies and their recklessness, when I did not send them or charge them. So they do not profit this people at all, declares the LORD.
Mat 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Rev 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
It is a painful sting to realize that your “Prophet” is a false prophet. Pray for foregivness and let it go.
If you don’t understand what I am saying then visit these sites and read every word.
Here is a very short list of her false prophesy. Not to mention the shut door and the investigative judgement.
• EGW predicted that some of those present at a conference in 1856 would live to see the Lord return (1T 131, 132; see also R&H;July 31, 1888, for a similar prediction)
• In 1858, she saw the “pious slave” rise to meet the Lord at the second coming, leaving the cruel master watching in awe (EW 35)
• EGW predicted that the world would end in conjunction with the conclusion of the Civil War (1T 260)
All this has been amply covered and the critics refuted. I am not delving into that, for what I see is that those who are against the SDA Church, because of unwillingness to accept the “inconvenient truth” of having to dedicate one entire day to the Lord (mostly) just follow the same path of people, like Dan Barker, former Evangelical pastor who became an Atheist and finds lots of faults in the Bible. He challenges believers in the Bible with lots of similar arguments, pointing to prophecies not fulfilled, discrepancies, contradictions. . .
I don’t know how to resolve the things he points out as flaws in the Bible record, but I believe in the Bible anyway.
What I expected were REAL DATES SET, and nobody presented me a single one, just innuendos based on bias and prejudice.
Your accusations are sweeping and wide. If you are to learn anything from this site you must see that we are not anti sabbath. We are for Christ and salvation. We want to make christ the most important part and EGW wants to make sabbath keeping the most important part. EGW’s incorrect focus on the sabbath makes the SDA church an Occult organization. Occult churches are everywhere and they will walk you straight into hell. One definition of the word occult is “to become hidden or shut off from view” a synonym is “unrevealed” in short when something is occult it appears to be something it is not. Usually it is such a close copy as to be difficult to discern the difference. It looks like a church and it acts like a church but they worship a day more than Jesus. I believe many, and I do mean many, churches have satanic influence. Just enough to throw them off the path to the real message. Fortunately Gods message is so simple and powerful that it is not easily hidden. In any occult Church the biblical truth is there, it’s just not easy to find amid all the “Doctrine”.I would not say that the church you choose doesn’t matter but I have learned that I can worship in any christian church and recieve a blessing. That is because in the end it’s all between me and God. I can worship with a false prophet just fine but I will not be lead by one.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
EGW’s work promotes everything this text is against. If that is not Occult what is.
The bible is very clear that when a prophet is wrong we should no longer listen to them. If you read this site and check out others you will find many cases where EG White is blatantly wrong. It is interesting to me that she said she was not a prophet but the church will not accept her word for it because they want that status. There is also a lot of income connected to her work.
Satan is on earth to steal kill and destroy. He cannot face people directly as they will reject him for the most part out of hand. We have Gods law written on our hearts and we know deep down what is right. Satan’s only real avenue to us is by way of trickery and deceit. Churches are the most fertile ground for him as they contain the people he is after and they have many doctrines and writings to manipulate. The SDA church is not the only one to be manipulated in this way.
I believe that one can find God easily in any situation with prayer. You did not come here by accident there is a reason unknown to us and I would say God is leading you. For now there are only a few important things for you to know with certainty and they are all found in each of the gospels. No other Gods, Love God completely, Love others as yourself and love yourself and accept Jesus as your personal savior. You don’t need 50,000 pages of superfluous writing to get the point.
It is my hope and prayer that one day the SDA leadership will be strong enough to do the wright thing and say we need to clear up a few mistakes here. It would not be easy to admit to the world that there were a few problems. The payoff however is huge. The consequences to the people of the world of just this one simple act by just one of the many churches can not be measured.
My friends, I am a former “New Alliancer” and I know both sides of this one century and half debate veeeeeery well. The big lie here is that Ellen White wants to make the Sabbath SUPERIOR TO CHRIST and I never saw that in her writings. She exalts Christ above all else, and even Baptist theologian Walter Martin, who analyzed profoundly her writings, said that she was truly someone who loved her Savior above all else. You just have to read Steps to Christ and The Desire of Ages to see how your biased analysis is something that you should be very careful about, for Matt. 12:36 shows something very bad regarding those who distort the facts and what they will have to face one day. I don’t want to be behind the skin of those who insist walking though that path on that day of reckoning. . .
I have read here something of a slogan, “good news for Seventh-day Adventists” and so far I couldn’t figure out which “good news” are these. . . Could it be that you can be saved because God selected those who will be so, either keeping all God’s commandment or not? Could it be that you can belong to any Christian club, under the name of any “Christian Church”, that you can be saved anyway? Be careful, friends, to not be fooling yourselves with false promises.
It’s hard to discover what you mean by that slogan. . .
She absolutely did love christ but her doctrine is all about sabbath keeping not jesus loving and I have not heard a word about salvation by faith alone. Jesus was very clear about that so believe who you wish. I have made my choice.
