JeremyG, well stated.The part I cannot grasp is why do the believers continue to believe even in the face of the facts. EGW is connected to so much false prophecy that her station cannot be denied. We know she was not inspired of God so the only real question is was she inspired by other beings or did she just copy the wrong work? No matter the believers insist on playing horse shoes with her and as long as they can show her 50% right or more they are satisfied.

Where in the bible is that!!!!!

I don’t see how anyone can give any man credibility in theological matters who could say this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcVLs__5hw

This clip shows just what an utter lack of discernment looks like.  And a year or two ago “60 Minutes” interviewed him where he was asked about the lack of Scripture in his latest book at which time he retorted that preaching from Scripture wasn’t his calling.

The good fruits of Ellen White ministry is what calls the the attention of the secular media, not the philosophy of life of those who abandoned the SDA Church and adopted the “liberal” view regarding what God establishes for our good.

Even VEGETARIANISM is more and more shown as the way to follow for the best interest of individual health, economic and planetary well being.

Even though most of you probably can’t understand the language, these videos prepared by non-Adventists in Brazil show how the production and consumption of meat is one of the most terrible factors to affect negatively not only an individual’s health, but also it means bad economics for the country and a plague to the planet. The emphasis also on the suffering of the poor innocent animals sacrificed to attend man’s appetite is something to take into serious account:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EghRqeZA-TU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKz6sgnUgdg&feature=fvw

Sorry for not having them in English.

I started a new topic to discuss especifically the dietary laws in the Bible with all this shout out of texts out of context duly considered. It’s under the general title “Divine Manual For the Operation of the Human Machine”.

Maybe Osteen not always preach based on the Bible, but that time he did. . .

Azenilto Brito - 03 August 2010 05:21 PM

The emphasis also on the suffering of the poor innocent animals sacrificed to attend man’s appetite is something to take into serious account:

Oh yeah, that “evil” Jesus who killed and ate those poor innocent animals to satisfy His appetite… How horrible…

You’re convincing no one and only blaspheming the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jeremy

Modern practices of animal raising and butchering are different from Jesus’ times. Other day I spoke with a truck driver who told me that he had a delivery in a chicken farm, and after seeing the way they are raised and prepared for slaughter he lost his enthusiasm for eating chicken for a long time.

Slavery is such a cruel thing, but neither Jesus nor Paul said a word against that practice. Everything has it’s due time.

JeremyG - 03 August 2010 11:41 PM

Azenilto Brito - 03 August 2010 05:21 PM

The emphasis also on the suffering of the poor innocent animals sacrificed to attend man’s appetite is something to take into serious account:

Oh yeah, that “evil” Jesus who killed and ate those poor innocent animals to satisfy His appetite… How horrible…

You’re convincing no one and only blaspheming the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jeremy

Amen Jeremy! Amen!!!

Brothers and Sisters,

I have a reputation on this forum of respectfully disagreeing and arguing points with people and doing so (hopefully) in a Christ honoring way. However, this topic and the un-biblical justification for certain diets, days, ceremonies, and Sabbaths while trampling underfoot the Word of God is going way too far. Would we be loving our errant brother to not biblically challenge, correct, and politely rebuke him? I don’t think so…

We all notice here Azenilto’s complete disregard for the Apostle Paul’s directives that both Jeremy and I have sited in earlier posts. The preservation and protection of the SDA church is his only mission regardless of what that effort does to the “very Word of God”. And then to quote Olsteen and most recently use so-called “animal rights” as a justification for vegetarianism is a clear demonstration of acute desperation while again completely ignoring the “Very Word of God”. Azenilto’s agenda here is clear. Let us pray that the Holy Spirit will intervene by guiding us and correcting this brother.

Now I must make this statement: I have absolutely NO problem with the personal choice of vegetarianism. However, outside of the realm of personal choice, in the secular world, there exists a rabid agenda powered by the animal rights people to force this philosophy on all of us. It has become a religion to many. They make it into a form of idolatry that makes some feel that they are doing a worthwhile thing while falsely filling the emptiness of not having a Savior. These people need our outreach and our prayers.

Many in the SDA church uses vegetarianism as a badge of honor. Vegetarianism is not backed up by scripture at all; and Azenilto’s total lack of response to the scripture based arguments already presented in this forum is VERY telling indeed. I have two or three more biblical examples to present:

Scripture tells us clearly that our God is Holy and perfect; and has no evil within Him. The Apostle John makes this perfectly clear:

John 1:1-7 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our joy complete.  5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

So now that we understand that God the Father cannot lie nor do any evil, consider this:

Exodus 16:11-13 (NIV) 11 The LORD said to Moses, 12 “I have heard the grumbling of the Israelites. Tell them, ‘At twilight you will eat meat, and in the morning you will be filled with bread. Then you will know that I am the LORD your God.’ “ 13 That evening quail came and covered the camp…

If the consumption of meat was not good in any way for His “chosen people” then of course our Holy and perfect God would not have provided it! The Lord could have just as easily covered the ground at twilight with any non-meat alternative. But He simply did not do this. He provided Quail. This cycle of providing manna & quail for every non-Sabbath morning & twilight continued for 40 years.

Another point: We also know from scripture that the Levites (All the Priests and their families) were commanded by God how to select and eat from the animal sacrifices made in the Lord’s Temple:

1 Samuel 2:13-15 (NIV) 13 Now it was the practice of the priests with the people that whenever anyone offered a sacrifice and while the meat was being boiled, the servant of the priest would come with a three-pronged fork in his hand. 14 He would plunge it into the pan or kettle or caldron or pot, and the priest would take for himself whatever the fork brought up. This is how they treated all the Israelites who came to Shiloh. 15 But even before the fat was burned, the servant of the priest would come and say to the man who was sacrificing, “Give the priest some meat to roast; he won’t accept boiled meat from you, but only raw.”

Again Azenilto where is the BIBLICAL justification for vegetarianism!?!?

Early SDAs were not the first to want to differentiate themselves from other churches! They wanted to stand out as the “Remnant Church” and chose many other distinctives that (in their own minds) made them better Christians. Date setting, Sabbath observance, vegetarianism… (Redundant statement warning! >) None of these distinctives are supported in NT Scripture; nor do they it strengthen the Body of Christ!

In Christ alone may we all find our salvation!

Amen!

In the Bible times they had poligamy and slavery as regular practices. Discussing the divorce situation Jesus said that “in the beginning” it was not so--and pointed to the IDEAL of monogamous marriage after the Adam and Eve model.

In the BEGINNING God established a VEGETARIAN regimen for men, not meat eating, remember? How about reading Genesis 1 again, or have you folks adopted the “Christian evolutionary” explanation?

Where is the Bible proof that slavery is wrong? So, let’s adopt slavery again, despite the government not agreeing with it (as homossexual marriage in places where the government accepts and approves it, despite the objections of many religious people).

As to the biblical proofs of our reasoning regarding those foods that God considered “abomination” (Deut. 14:3) and the Bible NEVER shows Him changing His mind about until the day of reckoning (Isa. 66:16-18),

I started a new topic to discuss especifically this point, and what I saw there is simply DISAPPOINTING to say the least. No answer to the questions I addressed objectors, just the old anti-SDA rant of your prejudiced agenda. . . No discussion on the BIBLE TEXTS that prove the truth that God never intended to have the dietary laws abolished, since they deal with something He consided ABOMINATION and never said it had stopped to be so, UP TO THE RECKONING DAY. . .

Brito, you seem to have trouble staying within the doctrines of Christ.—Is the kingdom a matter of food and drink, or is it not. So far all you have proven is you do not have God. Where do you think that ends up?

Here are more abominations, are you concerned about them as well?

But whoever sacrifices a bull
is like one who kills a man,
and whoever offers a lamb,
like one who breaks a dog’s neck;
whoever makes a grain offering
is like one who presents pig’s blood,
and whoever burns memorial incense,
like one who worships an idol.
They have chosen their own ways,
and their souls delight in their abominations;
so I also will choose harsh treatment for them
and will bring upon them what they dread. Isaiah 66

I bear the bad news to you that you worship a Jesus that does not exist (also known as idolatry, making one a false apostle and deceitful worker - 2 Corinthians 11), one who “did something” in 1844, according to your deceived teachers. You have chosen your way, and if you are never born again, God will choose harsh treatment for you and bring upon you what you dread.

I know very well this obsfucation tactics of changing the focus of a subject, when it clearly seems “inconvenient” to face.

Here I am not discussing anything of 1844, can’t you see this? Now, how about facing the Bible discussions on the dietary laws in the appropriate topic, ‘Divine Manual For the Operation of the Human Machine?”

Azenilto Brito - 06 August 2010 08:10 AM

I know very well this obsfucation tactics of changing the focus of a subject, when it clearly seems “inconvenient” to face.

You might have a leg to stand on, some credibility, if your church did not actually teach that Jesus’ (God) blood contaminated a heavenly storage room! What you in your deceived state think is obfuscation is our use of diagnostic scripture on you. So you are a false apostle and deceitful worker. Why should anyone listen to you? So what if I am not on subject? 2John 9-11 says YOU do not have God, thus you are a worthless teacher.

Azenilto Brito - 06 August 2010 08:10 AM

Here I am not discussing anything of 1844, can’t you see this? Now, how about facing the Bible discussions on the dietary laws in the appropriate topic, ‘Divine Manual For the Operation of the Human Machine?”

Unfortunately for you, 1844 is a piece of your spiritual DNA. It must be dealt with to see if you have God, and you do not!

You want everyone to face dietary law? Face this for yourself: ”Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience”

Do you obey that? Or do you intend to re-write scripture to say ”Eat some things sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience”

I wager that you will attempt to deviate from scripture, confirming that you are a false apostle and deceitful worker. Enjoy the results of that!

2John says not even to bid you God-speed. It says you are wicked too.

By the way, please show from anywhere on the entire internet were you have brought the teaching of 2 John 9-11 prior to todays date.

Why haven’t you? Don’t you call yourself “people of the Book”?

9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.
11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Do not get mad at any of us when we prove you do not have God. You should thank us!

Larry - 06 August 2010 06:41 PM

You want everyone to face dietary law? Face this for yourself: ”Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience”

Do you obey that? Or do you intend to re-write scripture to say ”Eat some things sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience”

Actually, they change it to “Eat NOTHING sold in the meat market, or else you are sinning against God.”

“Not an ounce of flesh meat should enter our stomachs.” (Counsels on Diet and Foods, 380.2)

Jeremy

As I said in other topic, what I see here is an incredible demonstration of angry remarks, bashing SDA Church and anyone who stand for its teacings.

I am a “former new alliancer”, my friends, so I know very well all your objections and arguments, your attempts to obsfuscate the subjects under discussion (as is the case in THIS topic), and these personal attacks are simply demonstration of WEAKNESS, not of strength on you part. Don’t fook yourselves. . .

To grab one isolated text and turn it into an “inexpugnable fortress” is one of the tactics of those who are in error. All these points were covered in the other topic, with objective questions and points that NOBODY either answer or refute.

Azenilto Brito - 07 August 2010 06:40 AM

As I said in other topic, what I see here is an incredible demonstration of angry remarks, bashing SDA Church and anyone who stand for its teacings.

I am a “former new alliancer”, my friends, so I know very well all your objections and arguments, your attempts to obsfuscate the subjects under discussion (as is the case in THIS topic), and these personal attacks are simply demonstration of WEAKNESS, not of strength on you part. Don’t fook yourselves. . .

To grab one isolated text and turn it into an “inexpugnable fortress” is one of the tactics of those who are in error. All these points were covered in the other topic, with objective questions and points that NOBODY either answer or refute.

Hi Brito,

I agree with you that the personal attacks by one person does not reflect the philosophy of this web site.

Let us try to control the personal attacks Larry. The tone of your posts do not reflect the spirit of Christ.

Stan