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Chosen By God by RC Sproul
Posted: 10 March 2011 12:00 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Chosen By God


Anyone familiar with Calvinism will find little new in this book, which is simply a re-hash of the “doctrines” so dear to the heart of the confirmed Calvinist. Oh, there is some tinkering with the well known T.U.L.I.P. acronym, but the unscriptural conclusions of this theological system remain the same. Sproul echoes the party line and uses the proven weapons of Calvinism against all nay-sayers, the sound of his cannons drowning out all protest, if not silencing them.

His armory contains the relatively few scriptures that deal with the basic premise of Calvinism; mainly, that God has selected before time began, those who would be saved. These individuals would be the recipient of a mysterious inner enabling that would cause them to believe the Gospel. The obvious counterpart to this teaching, is of course, that by electing some, God, by default at least, was also electing some to eternal punishment.

This part of the theological equation is reluctantly acknowledged with much clarifying and a good deal of hedging, both by most Calvinists but here also by RC Sproul. No doubt sinners will go to Hell happier under Sproul’s explanation than the hyper Calvinist’s( or as the author calls them “sub-Calvinists"). The sub-Calvinist believes in double predestination which means that as God actively works on the elect to bring them to salvation, so He also actively works on the unsaved to make sure they don’t miss Hell. Sproul expresses horror at the implications to God’s character in this awful teaching. He is much more comfortable believing that God simply allows the sinner to go his way and thus justly wind up in Hell forever! Can anyone in their right mind find comfort for the honor of a God who does not lift His little finger to warn and save a blind sinner from an eternal Hell? And can anyone, except a Calvinist, believe that such a view as RC Sproul expresses is not as equally horrifying as the previous? Especially in light of the many clear passages to the contrary?

RC Sproul has confidence in his weapons; he, like all Calvinists, believe that they are placed on the high ground of God’s Sovereignty. After all “Who are you, oh man, to reply to God?” The problem with this position is that no Christian denies the Sovereignty of God. However, the Calvinist’s assumes that he alone speaks for God, so any opposition to his incorrect view is, in his eyes, the enemy of God. To question the Calvinist, is to question God! The truth of God, that He is Sovereign and holy is often used as an intimidating club to keep those of us who disagree with Calvinism at bay. For the record, God can do ANYTHING at ANYTIME as long as it is full accord with His revealed character and will. We do NOT question God’s Sovereignty; we simply look to the scriptures to see how He has deigned to exercise it in love. We reserve the right to “question the spirits, to see if they be of God.” This includes the Calvinist, who trumpets his love for the character of God and then besmirches it with his awful misuse of the Scriptures.

And then RC Sproul not only has confidence in his weaponry and position, he also glories in his “army”, men who espouse Calvinism. He says the unacceptable in a gracious way which in no way mitigates his obnoxious conclusion. The bottom line is that RC Sproul takes an elitist position here that is totally out of keeping with Christianity. He divides this Calvinist militia into the past and the present, with the past rosily viewed as those who should be listened to, since they all agreed on this theology. He even gives us a little table of comparison of the “greats” of the past who presumably were Calvinists, even though they disagreed on other points.

Augustine, St. Augustine that is, heads the list, as well he should. He is the true Calvinist, the one who Calvin viewed as his spiritual father. That Augustine was brilliant no one can argue. But does brilliance guarantee spiritual validity of concepts? Or should this brilliant philosopher/Christian’s teachings be checked against that of “ignorant and unlearned” fishermen instructed by the Master? Or against one who proved that brilliance of intellect is neither a barrier or a boon to truth, the Apostle Paul? Unequivocally, yes!

One only has to read one of Augustine’s sermons (the Good Samaritan passage comes to mind) to see the paucity of his hermeneutic skills. Such a sermon today would be a disgrace for a first year seminarian’s initial effort! Yet this is the mind and man behind Calvinism, one greatly influenced by his previous “spiritual” experiences and certainly the teachings of philosophy. One last comment on the so-called “church fathers”; one must realize that the Reformers for all their bravery and love for God, still made many mistakes, many of them from the influence of the errors of the “fathers! Perhaps the greatest Reformer’s mistake was to seek to reform the Catholic church rather than to leave and build a true church on the Apostolic teachings. May we learn from their grievous error and return fully to the scriptures and the Apostles, particularly Paul.

We shall now respond to RC Sproul’s main point in Chosen By God. That is, his dealing with what he considers the main point of Calvinism, the depravity of man including his moral inability. In fact, he declares that if one accepts the Biblical view of human corruption, the debate about predestination is over. I for one, do accept the Biblical teaching on the sinfulness of man, but the Calvinist’s\Reformed solution to that condition is not predestination. Predestination deals with the ultimate place that God has ordained for every believer. Sinners are not predestined to salvation. People in Christ, believers, are all predestined for glorification with Christ and will ultimately be like Him in the beauty of holiness.

The helplessness of the sinner in doing right gives the Calvinist opportunity to offer his unscriptural solution. Since the sinner is “dead”, the Calvinists would have God inject new life into him which would then cause him to believe on Jesus. So in effect, God raises someone from the dead and then they believe unto salvation. This is far superior, in their view, than a “mere external call”, that is, the Gospel preached. Amazingly, “mere external call” is RC Sproul’s description of preaching the Gospel!

Let us consider a Biblical explanation and a Biblical example that correct this Calvinistic solution to the problem of man’s sin. First of all, the Calvinist persists in likening spiritual death to physical death. This is proven to be an error since both Adam and Eve were promised (threatened?) that in the day they ate the forbidden fruit they would die. They ate but they did not die physically as promised. Yet they died spiritually, that is, they were separated from God’s presence and blessing. They tried to cover up, hide, and they were afraid: they were aware of their lost condition even as “dead” people!

Another Biblical example of spiritual death misunderstood by Calvinists, is that of Lazarus. Christ raised him from the dead with no help from Lazarus. The Calvinist points to this as an example of Christ imparting life into a dead sinner. But this is a misuse of the actual experience since Lazarus was a saved man when he died. This is NOT a picture of a dead sinner raised to new life in Christ, but rather a preview of that time when Christ will physically raise all believer’s bodies to new life!

Back to dead Adam and Eve; how did they experience the grace of God to sinners? God came and preached the Gospel to them, even demonstrating same by shedding the blood of an animal to picture the death of the innocent Savior for sinners. Then He wrapped them in the coats of the animals, picturing the wrapping of sinners in the righteousness of Christ. This hid their nakedness (indicative of sin before God) from God’s all seeing eye. Thus they were restored to blessedness by His grace alone.

Consider the case of Cain, the first sinner to reject the Gospel. Instructed by his now Godly parents, his Godly brother’s blood sacrifice, and the pleadings of God, he nevertheless “went out from the presence of the Lord”. Here we see that Cain has no one to blame for his awful rejection of God’s Word except himself! We also see that contrary to the teachings of Calvinism, God strove desperately to draw Cain to himself, to no avail!

Thus it will always be; sinners will be saved by grace alone expressed in the Gospel which inspires faith. Sinners who are lost will have no one to blame except themselves for their stubborn unbelief. “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” The so-called “mere external call” is entirely valid and open to all or God is a liar. The Gospel is the power of God that sets the prisoner free into new life in Christ.

God gave His Son for a sinful world and He gave the Gospel to enable sinners to believe. In His Sovereignty, He has allowed man the one major privilege of obeying (believing) or disobeying (not believing) the Gospel. This is in keeping with the tremendous choice that Adam was allowed to make. As that one choice of Adam’s plunged us all into death, so our right choice places us in life … forever. John 5:24

Dennis Clough

All Scripture fron NIV

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Posted: 12 March 2011 10:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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Dennis,
You take great pride in attacking the doctrine that only God can do the saving.

I would just challenge you to read Charles Spurgeon. Have you ever read even one complete sermon by him?

I don’t think you even read the entire book by RC Sproul.

Have you ever read another great Calvinist author by the name of JI Packer and his book “Knowing God”?

Most of the best Christian literature glorifying God the most are written by Calvinists.

Your heroes of the faith probably include John Wesley. Now he did write a lot of good things, but a lot of his theology is identical to that of EG White. Another hero of yours is Charles Finney. He completely denied the gospel of the substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross.

The logical conclusion of a universal atonement is universalism. If Christ paid the penalty for all men’s sins, then there is universal salvation. Is not unbelief a sin that Christ died for?

Stan

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Posted: 23 March 2011 06:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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“Most of the best Christian literature glorifying God are written by Calvinists.”

Looks like you’re the hero worshipper in direct disobedience to Paul’s command to the Corinthians. We are not to “hero worship” any of Christ’s teachers but see them as gifts from God for our edification.

That’s totally incorrect about Finney and the cross. Finney had some wild beliefs brought on in part no doubt by the thirst developed in the spiritualy arid climate of Calvanistic NE.

I love Spurgeon, have read his Treasury of David for years and many of his sermons. He claimed Calvinism was Christianity as you well know and you guys love to trot him out as your poster boy for your wrong concepts. Although Spurgeon was a Calvinist he sure preached like a true Baptist didn’t he?

As a boy, Reformed books were all that were available to him, so small wonder he was steeped in that thinking. And yet you can see far more of the true Gospel in his evangelistic appeals than you ever will in most Calvinists’ writings or preaching. In his day, he was often ridiculed for his “emotional” preaching and even called “that baboon in the pulpit”.

How different from the usual cold intellectualism so favored by the Calvinist! The kind of theologicaly strangled heart that can send a dissenter to the fires ...or view the destruction of millions of sinners because your god arbitrarily chose for it to happen .. ugh! How ugly, how demeaning to the true God who made a way for every sinner to come back to Him through the precious blood of His only Son!.

Spurgeon never had formal theological training, thank goodness! His evangelical fires would have been snuffed out and his mind fettered more fully to the obnoxious tenets of Reformed theology.

This is a truly silly statement :"The logical conclusion of a universal atonement is universalism. If Christ paid the penalty for all men’s sins, then there is universal salvation.” We all know that faith in Christ alone saves even though Christ died for all. The one sin that He did not die for and which He warned people about was the sin against the Holy Spirit which involves rejecting Christ. against light . All judgement is given to Him; believe and live, disbelieve and die.

Christ had to die for all other sins since the sinner can only pay for one sin with his soul. Therefore, if Christ did not die for all other sins, God’s books of justice would show an unpaid debt to His holiness. That cannot be! Every sin must be paid for and only sinless blood could pay such an enormous debt.

The Holy Spirit’s ministry to unbelievers is to convict of personal sin and to convince the sinner that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior of sinners. Those who continue to resist the Holy Spirit in this matter sin that sin which Christ warned would NEVER be forgiven in this life or the next.  So that makes your next question irrelevent and careless: “ Is not unbelief a sin that Christ died for?”

;
Perhaps you should exercise your own spiritual capacities given to every believer instead of merely mouthing the familar mantra of Calvinism. It is your own belief in Christ that He seeks to mature into Biblical thinking. 

Scrip

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Posted: 25 March 2011 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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The other day I was listening to Sproul on the radio, heard him use the phrase maybe 4 or 5 times in his presentation of “spirit of the law”.

Did anyone else hear that show? Might have been a week or so ago.

I have heard other law-mongers use the same phrase as they are confused (SDA).

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Posted: 25 March 2011 03:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Stan Ermshar - 12 March 2011 10:28 PM

Your heroes of the faith probably include John Wesley. Now he did write a lot of good things

One of those “good things” has borne fruit inside the United Methodists songbook in front of every seat in their church.

Has provisions in it for emergency baptisms. I thought that was odd, like you had to beat some deadline!

What happens if you don’t get the emergency baptism in time? That could be a hint at what infects Adventism, as their false prophetess came from that line of thinking, likely.

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Posted: 25 March 2011 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Scrip - 23 March 2011 06:28 PM

The logical conclusion of a universal atonement is universalism. If Christ paid the penalty for all men’s sins, then there is universal salvation

Can you work these two doctrines into your thinking?

when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:  Of sin, because they believe not on Me - John 16

And that He does not owe eternal life to anyone:

the Son gives life to whom He will - John 5

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Posted: 25 March 2011 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work. 2John 9-11

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Posted: 25 March 2011 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Larry, you need to take time to read a little more comprehensively. You are quoting me in (post # 5) quoting Stan and disputing his conclusion. Settle down, wipe the foam from your lips and read my post again.

In answer to your question,:"Can you work these two doctrines into your thinking?

when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:  Of sin, because they believe not on Me - John 16

And that He does not owe eternal life to anyone:

the Son gives life to whom He will - John 5

Answer; After Chist ascended the Holy Spirit empowered the Church to preach the Gospel and live for Christ. When this is done, sinners are convicted of their sin and motivated to seek salvation in Christ alone. The last part (John 5) reveals Christ’s power to give salvation to those who believe in Him. He wills to do this and promises to to it. This coincides nicely with “whosover calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Scrip

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Posted: 26 March 2011 01:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Larry - 25 March 2011 03:23 PM

The other day I was listening to Sproul on the radio, heard him use the phrase maybe 4 or 5 times in his presentation of “spirit of the law”.

Did anyone else hear that show? Might have been a week or so ago.

I have heard other law-mongers use the same phrase as they are confused (SDA).

Larry,
You seem to attack not only SDA’s in an un-Christlan spirit, but you also attack men like RC Sproul and Chuck Smith unfairly.

I am curious. What church do you attend? Which Christian authors do you admire (if any)?

Stan

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Posted: 04 April 2011 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Larry - 25 March 2011 03:23 PM

The other day I was listening to Sproul on the radio, heard him use the phrase maybe 4 or 5 times in his presentation of “spirit of the law”.

Did anyone else hear that show? Might have been a week or so ago.

I have heard other law-mongers use the same phrase as they are confused (SDA).

Anyone hear Sproul this morning?

He referenced “spirit of the law” four times in his half hour show!

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Posted: 04 April 2011 01:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Stan Ermshar - 12 March 2011 10:28 PM

Dennis,
You take great pride in attacking the doctrine that only God can do the saving.

Stan, you will be interested to know that Chuck Smith has problems with God’s complete sovereignty as well.

“I believe that the scripture teaches both the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. If you take either of these positions to an extreme, to the denying of the other, then you’ve got a real problem because the scriptures teach both.” CC Distinctives, page 123

Why doesn’t Smith merely stay in the doctrine of Christ? (because he cannot)

“If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” Matt 16

To teach human responsibility in salvation is to disobey the gospel. To not deny self.

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Posted: 09 April 2011 07:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Another Larryism; “Anyone making any kind of error in understanding the scripture the way I do is not of me so therefore not saved.”

Complete Sovereignty is redundent. God is Sovereign, period. He can act in a manner unapproved by Calvinism. Amen?

Scrip

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Posted: 20 April 2011 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Scrip - 09 April 2011 07:22 AM

Another Larryism; “Anyone making any kind of error in understanding the scripture the way I do is not of me so therefore not saved.”

Complete Sovereignty is redundent. God is Sovereign, period. He can act in a manner unapproved by Calvinism. Amen?

Scrip

I have seen many a legalist SDA get confused and mention the “spirit of the law” as if it were some kind of attitude. You would think Sproul, who is very articulate, would not do the same as a legalistic commandment pusher.

As far as Complete sovereignty being redundant, then why is Smith talking about extreme sovereignty being a problem?

“I believe that the scripture teaches both the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. If you take either of these positions to an extreme, to the denying of the other, then you’ve got a real problem because the scriptures teach both.” CC Distinctives, page 123

Shall we modify scripture to accomodate Smith?

Whoever wants to be my disciple must take responsibility for themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

Whoever wants to be my disciple must make a right decision and take up their cross and follow me.

Whoever wants to be my disciple must allow God to do something and take up their cross and follow me.

Altering what scripture says only proves that somebody is lying.

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Posted: 20 April 2011 05:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Stan Ermshar - 26 March 2011 01:24 AM

Larry,
You seem to attack not only SDA’s in an un-Christlan spirit,

Is in unchristian now to hate every false way?

Are those who teach false ways somehow Christians, even though 2 Peter 2 tells us of false teachers and their destruction?

Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Psalms 119

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Posted: 20 April 2011 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]  
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Scrip - 09 April 2011 07:22 AM

Another Larryism; “Anyone making any kind of error in understanding the scripture the way I do is not of me so therefore not saved.”

I don’t know why you think bearing false witness is a valuable tool.

I see no evidence whatsoever that Sproul has totally dumped the 10 commandments as recommended in Galations 4.

And I have heard him teach of tithing responsibilities as well.

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Posted: 21 April 2011 01:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]  
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Larry - 04 April 2011 01:20 PM
Larry - 25 March 2011 03:23 PM

The other day I was listening to Sproul on the radio, heard him use the phrase maybe 4 or 5 times in his presentation of “spirit of the law”.

Did anyone else hear that show? Might have been a week or so ago.

I have heard other law-mongers use the same phrase as they are confused (SDA).

Anyone hear Sproul this morning?

He referenced “spirit of the law” four times in his half hour show!

Larry,
You are likely a classic antinomian. You probably don’t think it is necessary to follow any law.

I wish you would tell us what Christian authors you admire? Yes, you will come back and say that you only follow the Bible, and that is fine. But for you to constantly tear down RC Sproul and Chuck Smith is not helpful.

Please tell us where you go to church. I really want to know where you are coming from theologically.

You have contributed nothing positive to this website, or any other website you have posted on. I think most of us are disgusted by your extremely vitriolic style, I wish you would find another forum.

Stan

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