A Study of Morality
Posted: 15 April 2011 12:17 AM   [ Ignore ]  
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At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,

http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated;-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max;-results=12

Thanks for any insight.

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Posted: 15 April 2011 01:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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First off animals can’t talk unless enabled by a power beyond them. Since God is not tempting Adam and Eve, it must be Satan.

Secondly, more than mortality is involved as a result of sin. Adam was told that “in the day you eat, you will die.” Since Adam did not physically die in the day he sinned, we conclude that he died spiritually. That is, he was seperated from his position of innocence which allowed fellowship with God.

Thirdly, God knew good and evil in all its ramifications without experiencing it. Adam and Eve knew sin by experience in sinning against God. Until then, their knowledge was limited to experiencing only good from God.

That the sin Adam and Eve committed cause all their offspring to be born spiritually dead and energized by a sin nature is borne out in Cain’s actions.

We see this truth unscored in everyone but Jesus who was born sinless. David reveals the truth in Psalm 51:5:  Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Scrip

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Posted: 15 April 2011 02:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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I heard of these birds who could copy what they heard people say? That serpent was in the garden before Eve was, that serpent heard Yahweh tell Adam about that tree, maybe that serpent had nothing better to do?

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Posted: 16 April 2011 02:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Two many “maybes” in your thinking. We are called to go by the revelation given in God’s Word. And you are only replying to one point.

Speculation nver tops revelation.

Scrip

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Posted: 16 April 2011 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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Scrip - 16 April 2011 02:53 AM

Two many “maybes” in your thinking. We are called to go by the revelation given in God’s Word. And you are only replying to one point.

Speculation never tops revelation.

Scrip

Then explain why Pretribbers are caught speculating all manner of things into Revelation, when Revelation is written without flaw?

Here is a partial list of distortions made by Pretribbers to Revelation:

http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/viewthread/412/

Your hypocrisy is underwhelming!

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Posted: 16 April 2011 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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newnature - 15 April 2011 12:17 AM

In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age.

Do you get the idea that man can choose God or something in light of this passage:

there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God. Romans 3

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. Romans 9

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Posted: 16 April 2011 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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newnature - 15 April 2011 12:17 AM

In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age.
.

Explain why it is that you can choose immoral things in the heaven age of eternity.

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Posted: 23 April 2011 01:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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Larry - 16 April 2011 11:20 AM
newnature - 15 April 2011 12:17 AM

In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age.
.

Explain why it is that you can choose immoral things in the heaven age of eternity.

Is eternity a age?

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Posted: 26 April 2011 02:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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newnature - 23 April 2011 01:33 PM

Is eternity a age?

Only if scripture says it is!

Explain why you are free to use your “free will” to commit sin in heaven if you can do it on earth!

Explain the difference between your “free will” on this earth right now, and the “free will” that you speculate you will have in eternity!

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Posted: 26 April 2011 02:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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newnature - 15 April 2011 12:17 AM

Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh

So Satan was really right?

Where does scripture support that?

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Posted: 26 April 2011 02:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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newnature - 15 April 2011 12:17 AM

they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here

I don’t recall reading that God thought there was serious danger. That is called going beyond what is written.

Do not go beyond what is written. Then you will not be puffed up—1Cor 4

Why be puffed up? Why add to scripture teachings that only prove one a liar? It is not necessary.

Scripture does not say that they learned they had moral choice!

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Posted: 26 April 2011 02:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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newnature - 15 April 2011 12:17 AM

they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will

I don’t recall seeing scripture that said sinning produced free will in people. Would that be going beyond what is written too?

Just what were the lovely couple going to do with all that “free will” after they sinnned?

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Posted: 26 April 2011 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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newnature - 15 April 2011 02:51 PM

that serpent heard Yahweh tell Adam about that tree, maybe that serpent had nothing better to do?

Do not go beyond what is written. Then you will not be puffed up—1Cor 4

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar. Prov 30

You don’t want to be found a puffed up liar, do you?

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Posted: 26 April 2011 02:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Scrip - 16 April 2011 02:53 AM

Two many “maybes” in your thinking. We are called to go by the revelation given in God’s Word. And you are only replying to one point.

Speculation nver tops revelation.

Scrip

Bump for Scrip.

Then explain why Pretribbers are caught speculating all manner of things into Revelation, when Revelation is written without flaw?

Here is a partial list of distortions made by Pretribbers to Revelation:

http://www.forthegospel.org/forum/viewthread/412/

Your hypocrisy is underwhelming!

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